Revamped "Head Guard"

[Phoenix_]

Before I start this, this is going to essentially just a "2.0" of this suggestion I made back in January.

 

Well, I am back again with another suggestion that I believe may be a way to provide structure and give CTs the ability to control the map regardless of CT skill level. I know before most "warden-like" suggestions have been shot down under the manager's dislike of moving towards a warden system, but we can not keep avoiding the fact that the CT side NEEDS more structure moving forward or the server will continue to devolve and become more and more unplayable. I really think this system gives a chance of providing more balance to the game and allows a more "RP" driven style of play and a push away from the "death-matchy" type of play.

 

So, what would this exactly entail?

 

The 'Head Guard'- This guard would type !headguard or !hg after x amount of population on the server (let's say 30, as a temporary example) would receive 150 health, and a kevlar and helmet. This guard would be responsible for the creation of !tmute(s) and would be allowed to overwrite the orders of his/her fellow CTs. This would allow for a definite answer in times where 5 CTs are talking over each other and would prevent confusion and unnecessary warning shots and kills. Another thing I thought of that would be a good buff for CT/'Head Guard' would be that the head guard would be able to mark a T with !rebeller (by choosing their name from a menu), and it would put a beacon on them for 3 seconds. The Head Guard could use this twice per round, with x amount of time in-between. This would allow CTs to find a hiding rebeller that would otherwise wreck the round. If the original head guard died, one more person would be allowed to use !headguard in the round.

 

Before you all complain like before with "people will abuse the power of overriding orders" and "we can't give regulars power or they will abuse it", stop. Just stop. Literally, every other Jailbreak server entrusts someone to control the entire round via being a solitary Warden and it seems to be going perfectly fine. For the future benefit of the server, the CT side needs more structure to function as a cohesive unit and be able to push forward the "RP" aspect of this game mode. Just like those servers, if someone abuses those powers-- punish them and use them as an example of what not to do. Don't let the fear of what a small minority might do ruin the idea for the general benefit of the server.

 

Normal Guards- Normal guards would still be allowed to give orders as usual, but their orders would be susceptible to being overwritten by the Head Guard. The only exception is that Normal Guards can override a Head Guard's freeday. On top of this, normal guards would have 110 health, but no armor.

 

Firstly, I think the guards should get more health, but no armor since most other Jailbreak servers don't give the CTs armor, and I think that would be a good change especially if there was a head guard with armor. This would put more of a target on the Head Guard's back, and I never really saw the reason of giving the guards armor and buffed HP. Secondly, I don't think the whole overriding orders would cause any confusion, or at least any more than there already is. I think this system would remedy most of the current problems with CTs talking over each other.

 

As always, your feedback and criticisms are appreciated.

[RemixedPixel]

Although I agree on most of your points, I think that taking away all of the CTs' armor and only giving it to the head guard is quite a heavy nerf for an already disadvantaged side. Scouts, commonly found throughout quite a few maps (summerjail, undertale, and the electric razor maps for example) would now instakill to the chest. AKs three shot to the chest instead of four, and the USP essentially doubles in damage (if you're not shooting the leg). I think instead of lowering all CTs' armor, I think a possible change would be to set it to 35 kevlar+armor, enough for a typical AK to kill through (32 armor damage if 4 shots to the chest), but with lower calibre weapons such as pistols, they can break through armor quite easily (45 armor damage for glocks if 3 shots to chest, or 51 armor damage for usps if 3 shots, 34 if 2 shots). Additionally, iirc, lrs set armor to 100 armor+helmet automatically.

[duffy]

I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

[thump]

I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

I completely agree with this. Many times when I get on its usually a couple CTs giving orders and a lot of the other CTs trying to enforce them (or camping secrets like little nerds). I really don't see a reason to add a "Head Guard" when you already see "Head Guards" in JB without the plugin. Also, the suggestion about the !rebeller and exposing a t with a beacon is an idea that I do not really think is very good. I don't think it would be a good idea to expose a T with a command in the server. It would make rebelling against a CT team where the guards are giving actual orders very hard in my opinion.

[Trazz]

The 'Head Guard'- This guard would type !headguard or !hg after x amount of population on the server (let's say 30, as a temporary example) would receive 150 health, and a kevlar and helmet. This guard would be responsible for the creation of !tmute(s) and would be allowed to overwrite the orders of his/her fellow CTs. This would allow for a definite answer in times where 5 CTs are talking over each other and would prevent confusion and unnecessary warning shots and kill.

 

Instead of just the health buff why not make it have the juggernaut suit on. Would make things a bit easier for players to notice who the "Head Guard" is.

 

I do not think the "Head Guard" should be the sole player allowed to use !tmute at the moment. Since we are not fully diving into a warden system small things like this should be accessible by other players. Following the after "x" amount of players connected for "Head Guard" there should be a voice stamina on Prisoners or a max amount that can talk at once. Would limit down on the micspam without the need of !tmute. There should be necessary measures taken if implemented but that will come if the time passes.

 

Another thing I thought of that would be a good buff for CT/'Head Guard' would be that the head guard would be able to mark a T with !rebeller (by choosing their name from a menu), and it would put a beacon on them for 3 seconds. The Head Guard could use this twice per round, with x amount of time in-between. This would allow CTs to find a hiding rebeller that would otherwise wreck the round. If the original head guard died, one more person would be allowed to use !headguard in the round.

 

I find this to be a little too broken and making it easy for the Guards. I do not believe one person should have the ability to target a player they cannot see. This would highly discourage rebelling and be a disappointing way to die. The "Head Guard" should focus on the orders while the "Normal Guards" enforce the orders.

 

Before you all complain like before with "people will abuse the power of overriding orders" and "we can't give regulars power or they will abuse it", stop. Just stop. Literally, every other Jailbreak server entrusts someone to control the entire round via being a solitary Warden and it seems to be going perfectly fine. For the future benefit of the server, the CT side needs more structure to function as a cohesive unit and be able to push forward the "RP" aspect of this game mode. Just like those servers, if someone abuses those powers-- punish them and use them as an example of what not to do. Don't let the fear of what a small minority might do ruin the idea for the general benefit of the server.

 

 

Normal Guards- Normal guards would still be allowed to give orders as usual, but their orders would be susceptible to being overwritten by the Head Guard. The only exception is that Normal Guards can override a Head Guard's freeday. On top of this, normal guards would have 110 health, but no armor.

 

I like this as it still keeps the unique part of our server being that anyone can give orders with an exception.

 

Firstly, I think the guards should get more health, but no armor since most other Jailbreak servers don't give the CTs armor, and I think that would be a good change especially if there was a head guard with armor. This would put more of a target on the Head Guard's back, and I never really saw the reason of giving the guards armor and buffed HP. Secondly, I don't think the whole overriding orders would cause any confusion, or at least any more than there already is. I think this system would remedy most of the current problems with CTs talking over each other.

 

With how most of our maps contain a pistol secret of some sort removing the armor from "Normal Guards" should not occur yet. They would end up getting 2 tapped by a glock. Later on if our guards become better at maintaining the prisoners then sure but with how things are right now they should keep that extra buff. Since they'll be having armor the hp buff would go away to continue making the "Head Guard" more significant. I do not see a problem with orders being overridden as it helps the Prisoners know who to follow exactly. There should be a rule added or something to prevent any kind of abuse with this if we go with it.

 

Yes.

 

I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

 

While points given here are fair steps to prevent toxic orders or any abuse would be taken. If properly worded and nothing overlooked all we have to pray for is for our admins to enforce the rule. Currently there is not much for our Guards to give or have the prisoners do and that is limited by our round length, map pool, and a couple rules. I have specific changes in mind to help it not seem that we are all being shuffled around till our ultimate doom of jump rope but rather give more purpose to other orders and activities. Having something like the "Head Guard" would give more clarity to the prisoners on who to follow when orders are given around the same time.

 

I do not believe the current state of our Guards are fine. They are okay but not fine, it could greatly improve. Majority of the problem is the Guards themselves. Players rebel because it is easy, fun (sometimes), and there are no fun orders or really anything out of, "take one step out face the back crouch and freeze", or "go to big cage be on a box freeze on a box" given. By that time too it has already hit 2:30 which brings me to why round times should be increased.

 

==========================

 

I've spent the last week or two trying to be different when it came to CT with some new unique orders or a different route taken. With our limited time of 5 minutes and the first 1-2 minutes being first order and shift walk it is kinda hard to let the prisoners have some fun. Now this does not mean to let them run everywhere as it could be hard at times to keep track of them. Increasing the time limit would allow us to explore the use of minigames that are provided on maps and multiple death games as we can now enforce more than one. Having a "Head Guard" would greatly improve this as the possibility of another talking over you, conflicting, or just getting the order out right before you could simply be overridden.

 

To help more maps with mini games be played there should also be an increase in the map exclusion as mentioned earlier. Razor and Revamp are just way too overplayed and overwhelming for the Guards. A lot of creativity has to come into play if you actually try to make this map fun as a Guard for the prisoners. The exclusion would decrease the amount of times these maps appear since they are both generally double to even triple extended to simply play another version of it. It can have the players explore many more maps in our map pool and take a liking too them by learning the secrets and all the little activities you can do.

 

The rule changes needed will be mentioned in another thread I'll make later this week.

 

I definitely think that this is something needed on our server. When the population gets high chaos emerges. This is not only a problem solver to that but can help attract new players from other servers by giving a sense of familiarity.

[Phoenix_]

I actually think CTs are fine where they're at right now. CTs can easily mute prisoners if they get too loud, nobody can abuse the head guard shit which I do believe you're right, a lot of other servers to entrust one person to run the server, but then again you need like 12+ hours to be the warden on other servers and that's something we would need to implement. It can also drive the server toward a more DM server because unfortunately people will take the 'head guard' and fully intend to give toxic orders, make every order 1-2 minutes, and just run a death game at 2:30. There could be a lot of good and bad, imo mostly bad, but some good. A custom plugin would also have to be made for this which isn't too much of a problem, but if it doesn't work it's just time wasted. The server right now is in a spot right now where I just find 1-2 people on CT giving orders for the entire time. I think CTs are fine and need zero change.

 

I totally disagree. While the CTs as individual entities are not in a bad place, that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. If there are potential improvements to be made to even better their position when they have consistently been getting fucked, it would be good. I honestly don't know the requirements for warden on other servers since I don't play other JB servers too often, but if we did this Head Guard, it wouldn't need to be as hard of a requirement because they aren't given as much power as a full warden. I really don't think this would push this server more toward DM. It's just not that valid of an argument here because the orders you worry about are already being given in most cases. On a map like razor it is the same five orders every round "One step out, face back, and freeze", "Go to big cage", "Go to Iso", "Go to soccer", "Go to pool". This is a specific example, but it is relevant on most maps because there is the same 5 stale orders on every map. If a CTs who isn't the head guard actually give fresh and engaging orders, it's less of a possibility the Head Guard would want to give the same "lol do something that I can kill you easily for then death game and LR" type thing. I think this Head Guard system would push it away from DM because as mentioned prior, it would make CTs think more about the orders they give if they don't want their orders to get overwritten. On top of this, instead of 2-3 CTs leading the crowd, it would be 1, causing less confusion in the case of the three talking over each other. This suggestion is something much safer than my last suggestion, and I think would definitely be a time investment worth making. CTs do not need zero change. Stagnation leads to other servers getting ahead and our server getting stale. Change will lead to success, especially in the current state of the server.

 

Although I agree on most of your points, I think that taking away all of the CTs' armor and only giving it to the head guard is quite a heavy nerf for an already disadvantaged side. Scouts, commonly found throughout quite a few maps (summerjail, undertale, and the electric razor maps for example) would now instakill to the chest. AKs three shot to the chest instead of four, and the USP essentially doubles in damage (if you're not shooting the leg). I think instead of lowering all CTs' armor, I think a possible change would be to set it to 35 kevlar+armor, enough for a typical AK to kill through (32 armor damage if 4 shots to the chest), but with lower calibre weapons such as pistols, they can break through armor quite easily (45 armor damage for glocks if 3 shots to chest, or 51 armor damage for usps if 3 shots, 34 if 2 shots). Additionally, iirc, lrs set armor to 100 armor+helmet automatically.

 

This is valid. I honestly like the idea of giving partial armor (if that's even possible) better than full armor. I just don't think CTs need full armor because right now CTs can absolutely farm kills because they have that extra bit of protection and are less likely to actually put thought into their actions and just rely on the fact that they take more shots to kill than the Ts who they can mow down ez-pz. @RemixedPixel (and anyone else I suppose) what's your thoughts on just kevlar and no helmet? Half kevlar, no helmet? I think even just removing the helmet would be a good step because it still gives them protection from body shots, but would reward the Ts for getting a skillful (or lucky, I guess) headshot.

 

Instead of just the health buff why not make it have the juggernaut suit on. Would make things a bit easier for players to notice who the "Head Guard" is.

 

I do not think the "Head Guard" should be the sole player allowed to use !tmute at the moment. Since we are not fully diving into a warden system small things like this should be accessible by other players. Following the after "x" amount of players connected for "Head Guard" there should be a voice stamina on Prisoners or a max amount that can talk at once. Would limit down on the micspam without the need of !tmute. There should be necessary measures taken if implemented but that will come if the time passes.

 

What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

[Asher]

What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

 

about the Juggernaut, IF the "Head Guard" should get it, i think that they should get more than 100 armor and more health at the cost of Movement speed, because a basic juggernaut model would have thicc armor right? and making these stat changes would justify the Juggernaut model, imo.

 

and as for the voice stamina thing, can't we do what like ZE has when the voting comes on? like "x" amount of Ts/CTs can talk at a time?

I thought that if JB was facing the voice chat chaos problem, this plugin would have already been implemented, I was thinking of suggesting this a long time ago but i didn't think i needed to, cuz like i said i thought it would have been already implemented.

 

This is valid. I honestly like the idea of giving extra bit of protection and are less likely to actually put thought into their actions and just rely on the fact that they take more shots to kill than the Ts who they can mow g partial armor (if that's even possible) better than full armor. I just don't think CTs need full armor because right now CTs can absolutely farm kills because they have that down ez-pz .@RemixedPixel (and anyone else I suppose) what's your thoughts on just kevlar and no helmet? Half kevlar, no helmet? I think even just removing the helmet would be a good step because it still gives them protection from body shots, but would reward the Ts for getting a skillful (or lucky, I guess) headshot.

 

I agree, but I think they should have 100 kevlar, no helm, solely based on how they can get shot in the chest and heal back up over and over, until they end up with no armor at all, or better give them more than 100 kevlar at acceptable amount ofc.

[Trazz]

What's the functionality of the Juggernaut suit? Does it apply any sort of health buff? The point of giving the Head Guard extra HP is to make them important to protect and gives that guard more of a chance to live since they're leading the round. I do agree with having the suit on to make them stand out would be a good touch though.

 

That's fair. It's a fair statement that the Head Guard wouldn't hold sole jurisdiction over !tmute, and on top of that it may push it too close to a warden. I brought up the idea of some form of "voice stamina" to the managers like a month ago, and we all ended up agreeing by the end of the convo it would be tough to implement because it's not the easiest to determine "how long can someone speak", "what if someone unpresses their mic on accident", etc. If the managers want to comment on that, great. If not, oh well.

 

The heavy assault armor gives the player 200 armor instead of 100. Now that doesn’t seem much but it is a better buff than the 150hp. If you look at the statistics of the heavy assault armor you basically have to put half of clip of AK bullets in his head before he dies. This may be a little overpowered thinking about it right now but still would add a more favoring side towards the Guards.

 

I was not thinking of voice stamina in a sense that each player gets "x" amount of time to speak. On another server they have it where only "x" amount of Ts get to talk at a time. Unsure if this is based off of population, ratio, or whatever it may be but for higher population that would work.

[Chad]

We are not looking into implementing anything related to a Warden at the moment.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Chad]

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