fantastic

Yep, added it, thanks the playlists should be complete for the maps I have up there. Let me know if I'm missing any maps and we can try to figure out which obscure songs there are

Mirror:

I keep having songs playing through my head randomly throughout my playtime here at SG, only for me to find out that they've originated from JB maps. Feel free to post which song belongs to which JB map below maybe we can have a JB playlist. Will update as needed, please let me know which maps I've missed below . jb_vipinthemix_hdr ba_jail_electric_revamp_f2 jb_spy_vs_spy_v1-3sg jb_summer_jail_hdr jb_space_jail_sg_e2 Note: reposting from Spam Central with permission from @Dominic

Answer to #2 is accessible through the 5th option on !gang. AFAIK they disabled point gaining/loss on CT

We had a discussion in the shoutbox just now about this rule change as well, and there were some really good points brought up: - delirium brought up that the Spy vs. Spy secret mentioned in OP is a secret and not a vent I interpreted it as a vent leading to a secret, but regardless the area is still KOS according to our current ruleset of secrets and vents being KOS. If we still want to go down this road of changing the current rule so that secrets+vents in the grey area were to be not KOS, there would have to be a clause for secrets as well, further complicating things. Thus, I'll remove the Spy vs. Spy secret example from OP since it's a secret and the wall is not a "vent". - delirium + eden + DML (above) brought up that instead of changing the rule, it should be KOS and at most CTs discretion. We shouldn't change the ruleset and instead just let the situation play out I agree with this to some degree. I think that while it's a nice solution which requires no rule changes, it causes inconsistency which leads to a worse experience on JB because certain vents don't seem KOS (the Castle example) and leads to some CTs killing for it, and others not. One point I brought up is that if even normally kill-hungry CTs often choose not to kill or warning shot Ts over use of a "vent", something that is clearly KOS, doesn't this indicate something with the rule needs to be changed? Thinking back to why I made the thread, the main type of vent that I wanted to address was the one on Castle between cells, and vents like it. If there would be a way to address solely this vent such that other vents would not be affected that would be the ideal solution, but until then what you said is probably right. At this point I'll just wait for Dom's POV on it and see what he thinks. Thanks for your thoughts

Kept getting asked by players over the past month on how long they have left on their CT bans. Seems worth to link the site Nishok made publicly as opposed to keeping it hidden in the SA channel. Shouldn't be hard to add a hyperlink on the top of https://www.steam-gamers.net/sourcebans/ and add a link somewhere in the Jailbreak section .

Agree with your point #2, but you're mistaking which vent I'm talking about for point #1. There is a secret in cells where you spawn which gives you a smoke/mask behind a breakable vent wall which I feel should not be KOS'able and is what is being addressed by the suggested rule change in OP. The p250/mask is KOS as you stated because of the invisible ladder and should remain this way. Pool deagle is not KOS because it's not a secret and you don't need to go through any KOS areas to get there. Thoughts on the suggested rule change?

Yes, this is already a rule and the suggestion in OP follows. I agree with this This thread is concerning vents which one can access from their cell which does not lead to a place which is considered blatant disobeying, hence the suggestion for rewording. Not all vents lead to areas which are considered blatant disobeying, specifically: What are your thoughts on making these two areas not KOS as opposed to KOS as the current rule suggests? Not a topic of this thread, not sure why you brought it up O_o. It is because there is good common knowledge for what is allowed that what isn't that I modelled this new suggestion after the exception for teleporters. Thanks for your post looking forward to your thoughts.

Just noticed that there's no x-ray option for spectators on JB or MG. TTT already has this enabled. Main use of this would be for easier identification of wallhackers. Didn't check ZE but I doubt WH is a big problem on the server. Thanks .

Just learned a new secret thanks to you, cheers! The room itself is KOS as you can't get to it unless you break the vent with or without entering the code. Thus, yes, a CT should be able to kill any T that enters the room which aligns with the current ruleset along with my suggestion above since it is a KOS area. I'll keep thinking about other vents as well, thanks .

We don't have enough new players to entertain a second server with only new players allowed. The idea is that new players get to play with old players to learn the rules, learn about the nuances, and learn how to deal with certain situations. Having a new player-only server sounds terrible to admin TBH as it would require a lot of hand holding on part of admins. Interesting idea though.

IMHO, leaving it up to the CT leads to these grey areas as defined above leads to a worse player experience for Ts who believed certain vents to not be KOS because intuition dictates them as not KOS areas. Leaving it up to the CT as you suggested means disregarding the current "all vents are KOS" rule, causing more confusion than the suggestion I've made above. Focusing specifically on the vent between cells on Castle (this is a primary candidate which would benefit from this rule change; feel free to introduce others to the discussion which may cause confusion), there are arguments for either side as to whether or not the vent is KOS. Indeed, according to the rules as of right now all vents are KOS to minimize confusion. However, my suggestion mimics existing wording for teleporters which has not caused any confusion to my knowledge. Again, if you could introduce some examples of vents which this rule makes confusing it would help to determine what wording can be changed. I can't think of any vents which could cause confusion with the wording in OP.

I wouldn't have made a thread about it if it hasn't happened a couple times, of which it has, especially on Castle with the "vent" between cells . The Spy VS. Spy vent defined above has never resulted in someone being warning shot/killed from my experience, as noted. This was included in the example because it doesn't make sense for it to be KOS, but it technically is a secret+vent and should be KOS by our current rule definition. Which vents are ones which should be KOS but are not by my suggestion above? Perhaps we can work together to change the wording so that this is fixed. Note that my suggestion also makes vents that make a CTs job harder to keep track of you KOS, so vents which take you from your cell to a non-KOS area (i.e. from last cell to medic on minecraftparty) are still KOS. I don't find the wording to be complicated or confusing, but if it is let me know and again maybe we can try to work something out.

There are many vents on JB, some of which make sense for them to be KOS, others not. My definition of a "vent" in this case is a breakable texture (wall, vent, etc.) which lead from one area to another without use of teleportation. Examples of vents that are KOS and make sense: ba_jail_minecraftparty_v6: vent from last cell to medic This makes sense because the vent takes you to an area outside of your cell before cell doors are open, giving you an advantage over the CTs. Space Jail: vent in cells which lead to armory This makes sense because it's a secret which leads to armory, giving you an advantage. But there are some vents which don't make sense as KOS areas: ba_mlcastle_se: vent between cells This doesn't make sense because it offers no advantages other than letting you hop between cells before cell doors are open. It doesn't lead to any KOS area, and it doesn't make a CT's job harder to keep track of Ts. However, because it's technically a secret, some CTs have been killing Ts for using this. Spy VS. Spy: vent in cell which gives you a smoke and a spy mask Removed because this is a secret, not a vent This doesn't make sense because it's not taking you outside of your cell nor is the area inside a KOS area. Furthermore, it does not hinder a CTs ability to keep track of Ts. Indeed, I have never seen any CT shoot/kill a T who has gotten the smoke from this "secret" through the vent. Let's take a look at another KOS area, teleporters. Most teleporters are KOS except for ones which absolutely cannot be avoided, like the teleporter between first and second island on Clouds. If you take a look at the rules, the very bottom of the exception which defines which teleporters aren't KOS states: My suggestion is that instead of making all vents KOS, change the rule to match those of teleporters. Specifically: Vents which lead to areas that are KOS or areas that make a CTs job harder to keep track of you are KOS. To the best of my knowledge, vents that are very clearly KOS are not affected by this rule change, and vents that are in the grey area such as those defined above will become not KOS. Thoughts and discussion below is encouraged thanks!

1. There's scouts littered across the map for you to scope in and check the trees 2. If you see/hear shooting from up there you know someone is up there 3. It's a common spot at this point and many people are aware of it 4. There is a risk of missing the top of the tree and dying on the way down How is it OP O_o

Ketchup and rice

ThRza nerd raged so hard he got a new rank GODDAMN congratulations buddy Also the rest of you boys, good to see y'all joining new teams and doing extra work for SG GO TEAM GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Fuze @Dominic @eXtr3m3 @Takuto @Military_king @Manny I shouldn't comment further since I'm not in charge of suggestions, soooo tagging CA+

Think about another order that's similar and is valid, for example: "when cell doors open, go to the back of your cell, freeze, and face the back of your cell". There's clearly nothing wrong with this order, and similarly I would think the order of "go to iso and freeze on back wall" is valid as well. The issue arises when CTs try to enforce the iso order, which leads to two situations as you said: 1. Because all CTs assume Ts should be on back wall of iso, they begin spraying isolation while attempting to avoid anywhere that isn't the back wall. This is not allowed. This is called "fish in a barrel" which is a deathgame that I've heard other servers have. Why is this not allowed? Because Ts that are for whatever reason not on back wall of iso but are still in iso are not kos. Why? Because it's not a blatant rebel. Thus, it's against the rules to spray into isolation when the order is to be on back wall frozen. 2. But what about warning shots? Well, if you begin tapping into isolation you know you've hit a T when you get the notification "-38 HP" or whatever HP they lost. But how do you know if you've hit the same T multiple times, or different Ts? This inability to judge whether or not you've issued multiple warning shots leads me to believe that tapping into iso when the order is to be on back wall is also not allowed, as it leads to the potential of multiple warning shots on the same person. So to sum the above up, the order of being on the back wall of isolation is perfectly fine, but if you decide to begin enforcing it and giving warning shots to Ts you can't see through the wall that's a big no no from me. If you want to stare in through the door at an angle and give a warning shot to Ts who aren't on back wall that you have clear vision of, that's fine.

No, the situation is when orders are something like "one step out, face the back, crouch and freeze". Doors are left open for long enough that all Ts should be able to come out and do the order, but then are closed to prevent Ts from rebelling through vents or something, esp. on first cell in summer jail. Ts that have delayed/were AFK are warning shot, but are unable to follow orders because the doors are still closed. However, in today's instance they were spammed open/closed by CTs so there was more than enough time to get out and follow orders even after delaying/being afk.

A good CT team ensures there are no opportunities to rebel on round start. Opportunities arise once CTs and Ts alike have died, and you know that CTs aren't camping certain secrets so you can use them. Further handicapping a CTs ability to enforce orders isn't needed in the current server's state. A good rebeller either a) rebels before CTs can get to secrets on round start, or b) take advantage of their fellow Ts dying as distractions to go and rebel. There has been little to no issue with CTs camping secrets (unless you're last CT and are delaying) because it just isn't an issue due to the nature of rebelling. This especially doesn't make sense to me. If a CT knows multiple Ts are going to use a secret (for example, camping under big cage when orders are for Ts to go to big cage on Razor), that's perfectly acceptable - in fact, encouraged as it's a CTs job to ensure orders are followed and no one is rebelling. It's no way too OP for CTs to camp secrets that Ts are obviously going to use. As a rebeller you're supposed to be rebelling and using secrets that CTs don't expect.

STEAM_0:0:139795708

Always dreamt of being a commercial pilot but the stress, hectic work schedule, and responsibility was way too much for me to fathom. Ended up deciding to pursue CS.