Dropping Nades Should Be In JB: Change My Mind

[The Real Slim Jim]

I believe the changes to the ability to drop nades falls under what zzl said for rtv rule changes, adding more fixes for things can be addressed better by fixing the original thing instead.

 

changing the rule to add all nades which are considered to be able too do reasonable harm or damage to a CT, or the Capability for a CT to control the main group of T's.

 

Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a Weapon

 

the ability to drop nades between teammates is profitable, and the problem of gunplanting is quite rare, especially with the diminished server pop.

 

I Think A revision to this ruling should be made.

[20 scrolls]

The change was made in order to make JB less confusing, which you can read about in the original thread. Having the ability to drop grenades would create a much larger gray area in the rule, and so having the ability be disabled is better overall.

[dolo]

1 hour ago, 20 scrolls said:

The change was made in order to make JB less confusing, which you can read about in the original thread. Having the ability to drop grenades would create a much larger gray area in the rule, and so having the ability be disabled is better overall.

Grey area?????

Is dropping a Secret a gunplant?

There is plenty of grey area to be found in the rules and not just gun planting.

If we are constituting a gunplant as a weapon that has been given towards a T to intend to hurt a CT, is that really someone else’s fault for handing another dumbass a grenade? 
If there is a problem with giving a T a none KOSable item?

This comes back to the secret part, if someone gave a T (on jb_arcade for example) the T is not KOS because they have a secret the person giving them the Secret is KOS because they activated a secret. Now there is an obvious difference between nades and secrets, but it’s not a CT’s problem what a T does with a nade until it is thrown at a CT. It is not gunplant because the item isn’t KOS and they aren’t even KOS for “activating” or grabbing the nade.

Stupid rule get it fixed.

[Kataoka]

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

Grey area?????

NGL was a gray area cause CTs would drop Ts nade, idk if you completely overlooked that part but it was defined as a gray area because it is a non KOSable item. But yk completely disregard the CT dropping it to T part

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

Is dropping a Secret a gunplant?

Depends on the secret, If the secret gives you a primary then obviously, but if its one of those bomb secrets or others, nah, unless you have proof of them doing that secret then can't kill them.

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

There is plenty of grey area to be found in the rules and not just gun planting.

I mean I know it cause we have people like me and you

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

If we are constituting a gunplant as a weapon that has been given towards a T to intend to hurt a CT, is that really someone else’s fault for handing another dumbass a grenade? 
If there is a problem with giving a T a none KOSable item?

Again its only a problem when a CT keeps dropping Ts nades for them to just turn around and throw it at people, when it first came out it happened a lot,  could change now but up to the ATs

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

This comes back to the secret part, if someone gave a T (on jb_arcade for example) the T is not KOS because they have a secret the person giving them the Secret is KOS because they activated a secret. Now there is an obvious difference between nades and secrets, but it’s not a CT’s problem what a T does with a nade until it is thrown at a CT. It is not gunplant because the item isn’t KOS and they aren’t even KOS for “activating” or grabbing the nade.

It really doesn't. If a T drops a T a nade who gives a fuck it wasn't a problem, again like I said early you are completely missing the fact that CTs were dropping nades to T for them to do fuck all with it and that was the gray area, as its a non KOSable item

13 minutes ago, dolo said:

Stupid rule get it fixed.

I guess you're entitled to an opinion 

[20 scrolls]

1 hour ago, dolo said:

Grey area?????

CTs drop a flash to the player, player uses or never uses the flash, is the CT now punishable? Same thing goes for smoke, decoy, etc

[dolo]

4 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

CTs drop a flash to the player, player uses or never uses the flash, is the CT now punishable? Same thing goes for smoke, decoy, etc

If it’s not a KOS Item how would that be against the rules or in anyway hurt the CTs? The actual rule definition is Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a weapon how is a flash bang, smoke, grenade a weapon if not kos. If your saying a grenade is a weapon and that why T’s/CT’s shouldn’t be able to drop it than grenades should be kos by that logic.

[20 scrolls]

1 minute ago, dolo said:

If it’s not a KOS Item how would that be against the rules or in anyway hurt the CTs?

I throw a flashbang straight at a CT, I am now KOS because I damaged him, is the CT that dropped me the flashbang now punishable?

3 minutes ago, dolo said:

The actual rule definition is Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a weapon how is a flash bang, smoke, grenade a weapon if not kos. If your saying a grenade is a weapon and that why T’s/CT’s shouldn’t be able to drop it than grenades should be kos by that logic.

Not what I said, grenades aren't droppable because of the confusion it would cause. Grenades are not weapons, but molotov and HE grenade are when thrown. They are not KOS when holding them out because they do not shoot bullets, you cannot insta kill someone with a grenade pulled out.

 

Dolo, do not die on this hill.

[dolo]

2 minutes ago, 20 scrolls said:

I throw a flashbang straight at a CT, I am now KOS because I damaged him, is the CT that dropped me the flashbang now punishable?

I still think this faults on the T for a certain amount of times (which falls on interpretation but so does literally everything in the rule book)  However I like what Mikey brought up about a CT doing it multiple times, this I say would then constitute as a gunplant. But only if it is multiple times. 

 

6 minutes ago, 20 scrolls said:

molotov and HE grenade are when thrown. They are not KOS when holding them out because they do not shoot bullets, you cannot insta kill someone with a grenade pulled out.

I understand but what I’m trying to say is that it’s not a CTs problem if they give a T a nade. It may not be very jailbreak like and I unlikely see it becoming a popular thing to do. But our punishments aren’t for the rule followers they are for rule breakers, after multiple times of giving a T a nade whether that be other rounds or maps a person should be punished if they are actively giving out multiple nades in order for T’s to rebel. (Even if that wasn’t there intention)

 

12 minutes ago, 20 scrolls said:

Dolo, do not die on this hill.

I’ve fought on worse.

[20 scrolls]

Bottom line is in order to not further complicate JB (like you just did by suggesting that multiple round of gunplanting rule thingy) the JB managers decided to just keep it as it is and disable the feature. Not speaking for zero two but it most likely won't be turned back on.

[The Real Slim Jim]

10 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

CTs drop a flash to the player, player uses or never uses the flash, is the CT now punishable? Same thing goes for smoke, decoy, etc

 

14 hours ago, The Real Slim Jim said:

Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a Weapon

how about this so we can cater to 13 IQ players:

 

Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a Weapon or Equipment

or 

Gunplanting - When a CT gives a T a Weapon or Grenade of any type

 

the current rule set has no implication of the items use, only the CT dropping it to them, why would nades be any different?

 

6 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

I throw a flashbang straight at a CT, I am now KOS because I damaged him, is the CT that dropped me the flashbang now punishable?

was punishable the moment he dropped it to a T under the proposed rule set.

 

6 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

Grenades are not weapons

https://www.atf.gov/file/56536/download

 

if you go to page 5 and read; 

 

"Distraction devices may only be obtained for use by Federal, State or local law enforcement agencies."

 

 its pretty easy to see they are classified as a weapon.

 

10 hours ago, 20 scrolls said:

CTs drop a flash to the player, player uses or never uses the flash, is the CT now punishable? Same thing goes for smoke, decoy, etc

 

it seems you are playing devils advocate and trying to create the grey area by not understanding the nature of the rule change. 

 

The change would see all grenades treated as if they were a primary or secondary weapon, as they can all be used in accordance with a primary or secondary weapon to increase its effectiveness. Not to mention all of the grenades have the possibility to be used as a Direct Weapon.