Vote for a vote 35 members have voted

[All Ts]

Hello fellow Steam-Gamers,

 

You pay your taxes. You have rights. You deserve a say. With Dominic recently appointed to regional governor I would like to suggest a public referendum for the community to be able to vote on the 5 BD's who exist for the VP position every so often. Admin contests in the past have been hugely popular and brought lots of traffic to the forums. We can gather the candidates and have them "discuss" their ideas for the future of Steam-Gamers. VP's should not serve a life term in their seat! 

[Phoenix_]

While I can understand your thoughts, I don't think it would be a fantastic idea to do this, because much like the admin contest, it would just be another popularity contest. Funnily enough, there is a discussion in the CA world that has brought up this topic very recently, and it was explained the status of the role of VP, and what Gator has been doing. Unless the board deems it necessary, I see no reason to shift up the role of Vice President at this second. 

 

I feel like public voting would be better used for other subjects, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. 

[All Ts]

24 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

While I can understand your thoughts, I don't think it would be a fantastic idea to do this, because much like the admin contest, it would just be another popularity contest. Funnily enough, there is a discussion in the CA world that has brought up this topic very recently, and it was explained the status of the role of VP, and what Gator has been doing. Unless the board deems it necessary, I see no reason to shift up the role of Vice President at this second. 

 

I feel like public voting would be better used for other subjects, but that's beyond the scope of this thread. 

Quote

it would just be another popularity contest.

Do you feel that the current system rewards and has rewarded people who do good work? 

[Gentoo]

Current system - whoever is most popular to Caution

 

Proposed new system - whoever is most popular to players (has to be active and make frequent and somewhat intelligent posts)

 

All of these people have to be heavily vetted to make it to BD in the first place, it's just a matter of who will have final say and be leading work and decisions in Caution's absence.

 

In all honesty, Caution owns the community and has final say anyways, it would literally just be an excuse to switch up seats and give the community a sense that they're helping hold the reins and being led by someone more in tune with their activity and interests. Maybe that it is just what the community needs at a time like this though.

[All Ts]

@Gentoo

 

To clarify something. This is a thread posted back in 2020 where SG was expanding to new GAME SERVERS written by Caution. Who by the way, I don't fault for being busy overseas I just don't understand what the plan is going forward. 

 

Here is Gator's server activity since then on some of the servers he has enjoyed in the past: 

 

Surf

 

TTT

 

Can we not, at the very least AFK these some or try to populate them if we're at the highest levels of the staff team?

 

It's not just Gator by the way, I can go through and show the same for many other staff members who would swear to you up and down how hard they are trying or have tried to help the community. There's others who came in super ambitious on fixing everything but have the same activity or worse, at the highest levels of staff. If we don't care about these servers at all why retain rank on staff and what is the alternative plan? Why has not a single breathing human been logging JB time to help Dominic out? 

 

If people in higher ranks are so disinterested then it's not difficult to create a server for a game you are willing to play, speak up about what is making you feel dispassionate, or stepdown outright. I was joking in the OP but Dominic working JB and being a tyrant BD isn't going to be enough. You guys just got through BoM practically running shit and it seemed to me like him having that role alienated him from the community and put pressure on him personally.  Dominic is still capable of being a moron sometimes and it doesn't seem like anyone is going to fight him on any of it. It is really running the same simulation from 2018 hoping Dominic's lack of virginity and experiences in English 201 have prepped him to carry the team. 

 

 

 

 

[Dominic]

2 hours ago, All Ts said:

It is really running the same simulation from 2018 hoping Dominic's lack of virginity and experiences in English 201 have prepped him to carry the team. 

 

Actually I haven't taken 201 yet so things really aren't looking too good for us.

[Phoenix_]

19 hours ago, All Ts said:

Do you feel that the current system rewards and has rewarded people who do good work? 

Yes. All the current Directors are capable of doing great work and have proven their reliability and competence, and that's why they are in the role they are. I'm going to share this and hope I don't get in trouble for it since I'm not really leaking anything confidential... but in the aforementioned CA+ discussion that included this type of material :

• There really isn't a huge functional difference between Director and Vice President. They still have the same duties as any other Director, with the added responsiblity of making sure everyone is doing their shit. From what I understood from the disucssion, the main purposes of VP are to hold all the other Directors accountable for their work, and to take the lead for the community in the case of extended absence by the President. 
• With that being said, this means this role requires a huge amount of trust and it just happens that Gator is the most trusted for the reasons of (I'm guessing) he has simply been around the longest, and has been reliable when called upon. 

On top of this, I feel like if people voted on the VP, the role would become more ceremonial than anything, and lose a bit of it's value. I feel like it may open the door for pettiness and infighting, though I have faith that none of the current board would resort to that. I just don't feel like this change would really be necessary or beneficial. I understand your want for more community impact on the future of the community, but I really do think there are better ways to do that.

[Kieran]

Almost no one in this community knows everything BDs do behind the scenes, so I’d much rather trust the owner of the community to assess the BDs and make the right decision than some regulars. As others said, this position shouldn’t become a popularity contest.

[All Ts]

1 hour ago, Kieran said:

Almost no one in this community knows everything BDs do behind the scenes, so I’d much rather trust the owner of the community to assess the BDs and make the right decision than some regulars. As others said, this position shouldn’t become a popularity contest.

If higher-staff members CA+ voted for the VP I don't think it would become such a popularity contest and it would protect from a lot of the type of abuse you're speaking of. 

 

Hypothetically I don't feel that my initial suggestion is anymore of a popularity contest or lacking in objectivism than the system that already exists... I can give one very relevant example. Dominic went from permed, to AO which had some pretty hefty permissions just given back to it, then straight to BD. I'm not shitting on him as a person or even saying this is a bad thing necessarily. He's done good work and SG is better for having him but clearly there is some level of subjectivism baked in at every level. 

 

I also think that in the context of the state of the community saying "no one in the community knows everything the BDs do behind the scenes" is kind of a cop out of a statement. It's also worth noting anytime the BD's tend to show their hand and what they're up to it isn't always received well and that happens quite often because A. Some pretty bad decisions have happened and B. You can't always please the people. Mainly A though, it is mainly personal responsibility and not the pickiness of the community. It's not just in big announcements either, its in a lot of the bans and other minutia that goes on. 

 

3 hours ago, Phoenix_ said:

Yes. All the current Directors are capable of doing great work and have proven their reliability and competence, and that's why they are in the role they are. I'm going to share this and hope I don't get in trouble for it since I'm not really leaking anything confidential... but in the aforementioned CA+ discussion that included this type of material :

• There really isn't a huge functional difference between Director and Vice President. They still have the same duties as any other Director, with the added responsiblity of making sure everyone is doing their shit. From what I understood from the disucssion, the main purposes of VP are to hold all the other Directors accountable for their work, and to take the lead for the community in the case of extended absence by the President. 
• With that being said, this means this role requires a huge amount of trust and it just happens that Gator is the most trusted for the reasons of (I'm guessing) he has simply been around the longest, and has been reliable when called upon. 

On top of this, I feel like if people voted on the VP, the role would become more ceremonial than anything, and lose a bit of it's value. I feel like it may open the door for pettiness and infighting, though I have faith that none of the current board would resort to that. I just don't feel like this change would really be necessary or beneficial. I understand your want for more community impact on the future of the community, but I really do think there are better ways to do that.

 I think a quick yes to that question isn't really spending the proper time to think about what the situation currently is at SG especially with the context of what you've seen/dealt with here personally over the course of over half a decade.

 

I really question the efficacy or need of a senior council role at all that isn't interested in the servers or base level of the community, which is what BD is for SG. It is not server manager plus and is not treated like it is when it should be. I also don't agree with equating VP with BD too much or trying to argue it is strictly ceremonial, though I get your point. In the context of my reply to Gentoo here it certainly is not a ceremonial position and carries real weight in that sense. 

 

Despite the fact that BD's are and have always been seen as a council of greybeards if you're someone down on the community level I feel like someone at some point you have been on the other end of BD's being too far away from what's actually going on and because of that the things that happen don't at all match the reality of the situation or the tone of what the community wants/needs. IE. look at the servers and the context of how they've gotten where they are. Staff effort has dissolved for the CS:GO servers and for any servers in general. Where staff in the past would step down or be removed that has not happened and I think that's super irresponsible.

 

CA is supposed to advise the community but has always been a useless role IMO. It would be smart to address one of the communities most blatant flaws by elevating CA+ to a role that is not ceremonial and can actually decide who gets to be class president when Caution is off living a real life. Also, If we're going to call VP ceremonial then we need to start talking about replacing someone else. No?