SG Leniency

[Bondairy]

With the recent major decline of SG as a whole, I feel as if the unbans have gotten far too lenient. I understand that people should have multiple chances but for some of these guys it's just too much. I won't publicly name more than a few people but if it takes multiple perms/bans then I think it's safe to say that their contribution to SG is up. I don't see the mindset in unbanning these people who are "reformed" for 1 2 3 extra pop for a month before they get banned within that same month cause they felt like being quirky for a few minutes on a late night TTT/JB session. Not to mention that one of the guys who was just unbanned today is actively trying to get me falsebanned by pretending to talk to my "alts" as I am writing this. What's crazy is that the people unbanned before Steel (Me and Arctic Wolf) have not caused much trouble, instead we went on JB and populated the server enough to where it had 13 plus people which then became 18+. I even asked admins about the rules before killing people because I did not feel like breaking the rules/getting banned. With this new leniency it feels as if every rule that was enforced however many months ago when I was banned was thrown out the window essentially. Lastly, the fact that Dekay. was even allowed to apologize to the community/ZZL was ridiculous and it should not have taken 24 hours to say that we didn't want him back.

[A Decently Paid Janitor]

You are dealing with true morons. It's somewhat terrifying to realize that you don't really understand that. But yes, you're being clowned by clowns. Please avoid smearing that all over the SG forums when they're doing it to you in your personal life or on discord.

[Dominic]

I understand where you're coming from and appreciate you having the nerve to speak up, which is exactly why I gave my explicit permission for you to come at this publicly. However, it's not unfair to point out that you're missing copious amounts of information, factors, and motivations. Before I get into it deeper, here's the fact of the matter: decisions are never going to be uniform. There is absolutely zero way to look back on every appeal and make sure we're staying consistent with decisions. There's too many appeals, too many factors, and the biggest thing - every time there will be a different set of people making the decision, all with different opinions.

 

I'll give you a for instance.. I was not involved in any appeals regarding Slothy. However, I was heavily involved with Steel's appeal and argued for him to be unbanned. If I wasn't involved, maybe there would've been no one who spoke up to argue for an unban, and it never would've happened. So it's all about the hand you get dealt, and unfortunately there is no way to be completely fair and objective in every case. We aren't the Supreme Court, we'll evaluate a situation to the best of our ability but we're not cross comparing cases and ensuring that proper justice is served or anything like that.. we're just making the most informed decisions we can in the moment.

 

I'd also like to remind everyone about the precarious situation we're in with the state of the community. You and Arctic Wolf going on Jailbreak and populating it is extremely appreciated, see the benefits we've reaped from unbanning you? In the past, we may not have been so lenient because we weren't struggling as a whole. However now, we're taking chances on people, with good reason too. I was unbanned 6 months ago or so, after being permanently banned for 2 years. Here we are 6 months later, and I've been a Director of the community for 2 months already. So if they hadn't unbanned me, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this.

 

At the end of the day, it's what we're comfortable doing. If someone continues to cause trouble, they'll be dealt with accordingly. Slothy is on an absolute last chance basis before he will be forced out of this community for an extremely long time.. the rest is up to him. And if it comes down to that, it takes us nothing more than 15 minutes to ban him, send a message to the staff team, and then post to the public. If he ends up turning himself around, we're left with a solid regular that plays the server and promotes a positive environment for months on end. If he doesn't we aren't losing much time or energy.

 

 

[sWz]

Obv I dont agree with most bans/unbans but yeah as long as dalerjon, i just lag, and dvd stay banned im chillin

 

anyone who consistently shows they lie about maturing after more than 1 unban is a waste of human life

[Bondairy]

18 minutes ago, Dominic said:

I understand where you're coming from and appreciate you having the nerve to speak up, which is exactly why I gave my explicit permission for you to come at this publicly. However, it's not unfair to point out that you're missing copious amounts of information, factors, and motivations. Before I get into it deeper, here's the fact of the matter: decisions are never going to be uniform. There is absolutely zero way to look back on every appeal and make sure we're staying consistent with decisions. There's too many appeals, too many factors, and the biggest thing - every time there will be a different set of people making the decision, all with different opinions.

 

I'll give you a for instance.. I was not involved in any appeals regarding Slothy. However, I was heavily involved with Steel's appeal and argued for him to be unbanned. If I wasn't involved, maybe there would've been no one who spoke up to argue for an unban, and it never would've happened. So it's all about the hand you get dealt, and unfortunately there is no way to be completely fair and objective in every case. We aren't the Supreme Court, we'll evaluate a situation to the best of our ability but we're not cross comparing cases and ensuring that proper justice is served or anything like that.. we're just making the most informed decisions we can in the moment.

 

I'd also like to remind everyone about the precarious situation we're in with the state of the community. You and Arctic Wolf going on Jailbreak and populating it is extremely appreciated, see the benefits we've reaped from unbanning you? In the past, we may not have been so lenient because we weren't struggling as a whole. However now, we're taking chances on people, with good reason too. I was unbanned 6 months ago or so, after being permanently banned for 2 years. Here we are 6 months later, and I've been a Director of the community for 2 months already. So if they hadn't unbanned me, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this.

 

At the end of the day, it's what we're comfortable doing. If someone continues to cause trouble, they'll be dealt with accordingly. Slothy is on an absolute last chance basis before he will be forced out of this community for an extremely long time.. the rest is up to him. And if it comes down to that, it takes us nothing more than 15 minutes to ban him, send a message to the staff team, and then post to the public. If he ends up turning himself around, we're left with a solid regular that plays the server and promotes a positive environment for months on end. If he doesn't we aren't losing much time or energy.

 

 

I don't really blame you for the Slothy one personally, I'm just saying that the higherup team as a whole need to come together and be like, well hey, given the number of times we've had to punish this member and his time here was pretty awful maybe it isn't the best time to unban him if not ever. There's a point where it should be at least a little obvious to realize certain members don't want to come back. However, I do understand a case-by-case basis can take a lengthy amount of time.

 

Also, your situation was that you got BD at the age of 14/15 and climbed through the ranks at record pace. Then, the community was dead, and you still had friends in high places able to give you a rank that you once had, and they knew you weren't going to fuck around coming off a 2 year ban given your old position at this place. The same cannot be said for any other person who decides to get unbanned off a perm. They're more likely to get themselves in trouble once again then become a big member of the community.

Lastly, the people who want to help SG off an unban is such a small number compared to the people who will just turn around and troll again. From people with a similar perspective to me it's just so hard to help when the same people who made the servers either not enjoyable or a hassle to play are the same ones getting unbanned.

[jazzy]

Honestly this is just my 2 cents as someone who came off a relatively long perm but I've kind of read through some older appeals, and it's funny because it looks like a few of us in this thread alone have taken a few perms or more

 

I'm not trying to target anyone specific when I say this but I've read appeals here and there and the reality is anyone can write anything and say how sorry they are but I think what you really need to look at is the root of why they were banned. Nothing happens in a vacuum here and usually trolling and shit is predicated by people creating that environment. That day or night or whenever it was when Steel got banned in Discord I was fairly surprised to see him being the only one who ate one because he was constantly being egged on from everyone including admins, and it was pretty obvious he probably just needed to sit out for a little bit and cool off, and I don't really think that was deserving of a perm. Though I'm not omniscient and don't know backgrounds so maybe I'm off base here.

 

What I do know is that the way people act is really just a manifestation of their environment and the reality is if this community acted a bit nicer to one another these things would happen less and there'd be less need to perm anyone. I'm not really going to sit here and point at the BD's for that but I think people need to reflect, and this needs to be talked about in the appeals, that chances are if you're getting banned you need to be asking yourself why you are treating others this way, and ask yourself if you're just seeking validation from your peers. Some of the stuff I've seen posted in Discord is a complete mirror of the way I acted back in 2013-2016. I have put in so many appeals here back in the day and immediately after being unbanned I proceeded to hang out with the same exact people who validated my trolling and played culpability in it. Like to me back then getting unbanned was beating a charge and that was the fun of it rather than actually learning why people were getting tired of me.

 

I don't know if there's just too many in groups or maybe a couple in groups that are very big but I can see many people being ostracized for even doing something as simple as posting a thread on the forums or posting something in discord. It's almost like there's a group of people groaning whenever certain people open their mouths, even when all they're doing is talking about something innocuous.

 

If I had to make analogies, which I really hate, is at times this place can act like a prison block. If you're not trying to look hard and cool and bully people, you'll just be bullied. It's schoolyard behavior and even after a decade plus it's still not been curbed here, partially because many admins participate in it.

 

I think the most frustrating part of it all is when I jump on the server (very infrequently as per my gametime on the servers) I seem to have a great experience but honestly I don't know if there's just other discords or private chats but it seems like a lot of people have too much history with one another and can't let it go on either side and that results in a lot of friction and people just acting out.

What I don't think needs to happen is people timing out people but rather just trying to mend some relationships. I think I've failed really hard at that since I've been unbanned because people I used to hang out with have not really wanted to talk to me, and I think partially it's because I still have an ego and can't get over a hump of admitting that back in the day I was the one who was annoying and toxic in those relationships

 

Sorry to make a long post, but just had this on my brain way before this was posted, just didn't think there was ever a right time for it until now

[Bondairy]

From what I remember Steel was upset about Scroll’s forced demotion and recent GG member punishments (I was banned so I watched the entire situation go down in a matter of screenshots). Regardless of whatever environment he was in at the time and even if he was egged on by admins he could absolutely just close Discord. But, instead he continued to carry on and alt plenty of times and throw playground insults at people over someone he had only known for a few months. His behavior was unacceptable and at the time he took little blame for his actions (See appeal before this one with Greggy).

 

As for the Staff, yes, they should be punished as they are meant to defuse the situation but almost nobody community wise is going to take it seriously when you see someone with a green name who is probably 16 ask you to stop bullying an adult over Discord. 
 

Remember, this is the internet and people are at eachother’s throats 24/7 and criticize every possible move. Nobody is really here for the baseline of “making friends.”

[jazzy]

I didn't mean to derail your thread like that nor do I really want to open fresh cuts about anyone's recent bans/appeals, and I'm sorry if it's coming off that way.

 

Maybe my main point is that the reason you're seeing people who continue to get banned->unbanned->repeat is because there is an environment of toxicity here that is creating negative behavior, which to be honest, is probably also contributing to the decrease of people who really want to stick around.

 

I don't pop my head into the discord too often but it honestly looks exhausting interacting with some people in this community who refuse to drop an inch of their ego and just respond normally to one another. Honestly the last line of your post makes me think you're kind of in that zone too, where you think nobody here is wanting to make friends.

 

This is an internet gaming community for a niche set of custom gamemodes for CSGO (amongst other things), people are coming here because we have like minded interests in playing those games, which should hopefully make a lot, if not all of us, "friends." I guess I don't really understand why anyone would come into Discord or the forums and contribute in conversation other than to try and meet and interact with people. Maybe I'm out of touch

[The Real Slim Jim]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:47 PM, sWz said:

Obv I dont agree with most bans/unbans but yeah as long as dalerjon, i just lag, and dvd stay banned im chillin

 

anyone who consistently shows they lie about maturing after more than 1 unban is a waste of human life

that mfer was grooming kids, gave mr def scripts that got his account banned. some people have no place here and never will.

 

then again, alot of those bans that arent for blatant hacking, or doxxing, should just be let go after an amount of time.  @Dominic is a great example, he did bad stuff that was an extreme detriment to our community, but its ok things move on and so do people. @Phoenix_was bad when he was demoted, hes great now (maybe), water will keep flowing. 

 

don't let single scenarios be the thing that you make your mind up on, overall we need old members back.