[Rejected] ttt_67thway_v14 Suggestion

[Mitchel256]

• Full map name
  ttt_67thway_v14
• Type of map
  Gmod - TTT
• Link to map download
  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=298470515
• Additional information
  Over a year after the release of ttt_67thway_v7 - already one of the most iconic maps in the gamemode's entirety - came the release of the new, improved, polished, and tricked-out ttt_67thway_v14.
  
  With ALL of the benefits that existed in v7, 67thway_v14 is not only outfitted with a few tasteful/non-game-changing secrets, cleaned-up areas (including a redesigned T-Room), extra additions to the underground around the T-Tester, and the return of the cars driving down the main street. Once again re-adding automobile accidents to the mix, v14 is v7 with more, top to bottom, but not nearly so much more that it would fight with the excellent design of the map overall.
  
  With all the glowing praise heaped upon v7, there's only so much more that can be said. If only one version can be used, it's honestly hard to pick, but the truth is this:
  
  v14 and v7 are the two best versions of 67thway, and either or both deserve to be included.
  
  [Recommended player count: 6-20]
• Screenshots attached
  Redesigned underground area:
  https://i.imgur.com/BBj1Bc6.png
  
  Redesigned T-Room:
  https://i.imgur.com/Zzknht7.png
  
  Main street, with cars active:
  https://i.imgur.com/Hm1OYPD.png
  
  Secret passage #1:
  https://i.imgur.com/eUa4OnJ.png
  
  Barn area, completely accessible:
  https://i.imgur.com/gTJtsQW.png
  
  Melon maze to keep spectators busy:
  https://i.imgur.com/Tclmsqr.png

[Elfbarf]

Unlike v7, this version keeps the cars - good! Otherwise very minor changes to the upper level of the map. Not a fan of the permanent floor breaking trap to the side of the cell building - this is annoying as it'll get broken nearly every round and prevent a way around the building. 

 

Outside of the vent leaving the traitor tester room, there aren't any net positive changes downstairs in my opinion. There has been an addition of another trap to the v3 traitor room entrance, which removes safe play space from innocents, and the addition of two more trapped rooms on the other side of the flood trap, neither of which an innocent should ever enter. Traitors end up with far more incentive to just camp the room down here, wandering between windows looking for innocents to score free kills on.

 

Really not a fan of detective rooms - I don't really get the point of them other than potentially forcing stalemates where traitors can time out if they run out of credits. This one doesn't really have anything in it - just some ammo and a place to hide out of reach.

 

Not a fan of the secret knife given it's simply a few not very hidden buttons and thus is easily replicable every round. 

 

V3 remains my favourite - it's simple and just works. 

[Mitchel256]

The floor trap by the prison is practically inconsequential. At the same time that I'd ask "Who ever walks behind the prison?", I'd also ask "How often does someone get the chance to catch someone walking behind the prison and activate that trap on them?". It's just another fun, mostly-irrelevant addition. Just more proof that the map designer was looking at all aspects of the map and trying to put some love into all corners of it.

 

The additional traps do remove safe areas from the Innos, but it increases map tension and requires an acceptable level of map awareness. It helps keep the rounds fresh and exciting. A trap rarely-used is novelty, and that makes situations more fun.

 

Ts camping the T-Room is why I've seen servers almost universally ban camping the T-Rooms. But, if it's not banned, the simple solution is to avoid the area that they have an advantage in, and that leads to the biggest pro for you to consider: All of the additions to the downstairs make being above-ground more enticing. Making the underground and adjacency to the T-Tester more dangerous prods Innos to spend time on main street and at the barn. The latter is barely-used, and the former has the beloved cars, so nudging people into spending more time around them is surely a pro. As opposed to v3, where the safety of being downstairs turns into, conversely, people just camping the T-Tester.

 

The buttons for the secret knife aren't very hidden, but they also require one to traverse the length of the map a couple of times before it's activated, which is something that might get lost in translation when testing it by zipping across the map in noclip. Not only that, but the spots one has to go to are pretty telling of their intent, which allows for knife-sniping. That is, grabbing a secret knife that someone else has been working to activate. And, potentially, getting away without them knowing it was you.

 

V3 is definitely simple, which, ultimately, is why I find it incomprehensible that you'd shoot down community_bowling and community_pool, two very simple maps. Now, I know that simple works on 67thway because 67thway is an orgasm in TTT map form, and just keeping the layout is excellent, let alone all the bells and whistles. But falling back on "It's simple and just works." for a version that - in comparison to the later, feature-complete versions - is practically boring doesn't make sense when maps that are simple and fun are tossed aside.

[Elfbarf]

I agree that on most rounds the prison trap would be inconsequential, but on the occasional round where someone triggers it, it'd just end up as annoying. It just doesn't have much reason to exist - I think the kid who made it just wanted to put that picture of his friend with the chili dog in more spaces.

 

I think it's over-trapped - most of the rooms around the tester are trapped, so innocents will just avoid them all and be forced to just stay in the main halls. There's no inherent risk to it for the traitors - there are multiple entrances, multiple exits, several traps, 0-risk c4 placement, and in the case of v7, even a knife spawner. I'm not going to add a map where we feel like we have to constantly police people trapping the traitor room - that's a sign of a traitor room that is too powerful. Map-specific rules suck - there's no easy way to communicate them to players and it just causes confusion and frustration.

 

I don't think there's much safety to being downstairs in v3 - you still risk getting drowned by going to the tester, c4 can be placed in the trap room which presents a serious risk to anyone in the tester room, and the cramped nature is perfect for chaos, with there being multiple escape routes for any active traitors. It's very frequently a high-traffic area, with far more deaths per square foot than any other area of the map.

 

The barn is a weird spot - I don't think making downstairs dangerous is going to funnel people there a ton. It's needlessly far out of the way and there isn't a ton there compared to the main street.

 

An organised duo of traitors (or innocents) would be able to easily grab the secret knife every round due to its lack of randomness. It's not a dealbreaker but it's pretty poorly implemented.

 

V3 isn't all that different compared to these later versions - they mostly just mess around with the balance of the underground. It's nowhere near as simple of a map as community pool or bowling - it's just what I view as the default version of the map, given I'm fairly sure it's the last one the original creator made. 

[Huwajux]

Normally I'm the more conservative of the two when it comes to map/server changes, with Elfbarf pushing for change if it's a genuine improvement, so if he's against a map version update then it's probably for good reason.

 

For my own take, I'd say the overtrapping of the pathway to the traitor tester is going to end up being a net negative when it comes to gameplay. Downstairs can undoubtedly be a hotspot in v3, that much I won't deny, but it's never really been overbearing to the point that player traffic heavily concentrates there every round. The drowning trap is already enough of a death sentence that innocents are more than hesitant enough to go through it, which in my opinion is a good thing since it prevents the traitor tester from being too busted.

 

As for that area being so overtrapped that it pushes people towards the cars, I don't think that's as much of a positive as you make it sound. If an area is so overtrapped that innocents just avoid it entirely, then that's reducing options, not creating them. The cars are a great peripheral to the map, but trying to shift it to the map's focal point will only highlight that area's flaws that are otherwise benign. The car area is big, open, and you can see pretty much everything going on barring a sneaky knife kill around a corner or someone scouting.

 

For me the secret knife is just the nail in the coffin. These things don't work unless they are done extremely well like in ttt_mc_christmastown. There it's a whole song and dance where you have to search for materials and is almost always a group effort, so people are more aware of it being completed. Not only that but the traitor item you get is random so it's not always a knife; but even if it is and things devolve into chaos as a result, by that point the objective has taken so long that it's near the end of the round regardless. We've actually had to skip over some potentially good maps that were ruined by "secret" knife spawns, where someone immediately grabs it and things devolve into a shitshow, so I'm even more sceptical that this updated version will be better than the original, which has always been a big fan favourite on the server.