Forum Utilization / Reformatting

[jazzy]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:23 PM, Spiritwind said:

Having a landing page isn't going to do anything

That's your personal opinion vs mine, Many more popular servers have landing pages and they definitely work. We need an easy way to immediately show people our discord, servers, and mainline events. Current landing doesn't solve this.

On 11/27/2023 at 12:23 PM, Spiritwind said:

Removing the forums will just encourage old players to accept SG as dead and move on permanently.

If when you launch a webpage that shows a discord server with active players online, servers with (hopefully) people, and you think it's "dead" because you can't find the forums, idk bro. Think about a normal person's perspective who just plays video games and not your own.

 

Also I wonder how many "old players" think sg is dead because they go to steamgamers.com, or have you forgotten that?

On 11/27/2023 at 12:23 PM, Spiritwind said:

I just know that I personally would never bother with SG again if I saw the forums were removed or archived.  

Can we really say you're bothering with this place rn if all you've done in the last 2 years is post in this thread?

On 11/27/2023 at 2:21 PM, Spiritwind said:

A major reason as to why SG currently has 0 players in the servers

We seed TTT almost daily and can almost always cap out 1x a week. I play like 10-15 hours a week of it.

On 11/27/2023 at 2:21 PM, Spiritwind said:

started another gaming community, tried to sour the SG reputation by telling people we were stealing money, went on the servers and kept spamming ip links, created multiple fake accounts to continue to harass the community, stole SG developed plugins, convinced multiple admins to follow me; and then continued to try and create drama between the two communities. 

I asked in discord and it seems these accusations are not complete accurate? I think being hyperbolic to prove your argument is not something that is going to help said argument.

On 11/27/2023 at 2:21 PM, Spiritwind said:

but SG has been directionless for years.  Look at where it is now.  This is what it has become under your direction.

When we try to start providing direction and saying what we want to do, you threaten to "not bother with SG"

 

On 11/27/2023 at 4:16 PM, Spiritwind said:

I do appreciate that you do not take offence, but I'm seeing very little leadership and talks of how we can actually make it better; and a whole lot of excuse making and 'fluffing'.

Dominic, Revenga, Karma, me all posted directions we want to take the community in regards to discord/forums. We are trying to make it better, you just disagree so you think we're making it worse. We're providing direction on where we want to take some of our "tools."

 

On 11/27/2023 at 4:16 PM, Spiritwind said:

I don't know if SG will ever recover.

I'm sure me spending my time arguing with you about it will help it recover.

 

On 11/27/2023 at 4:16 PM, Spiritwind said:

As to the original talk of moving the forum to discord, I feel like its just for a sense of false security and sense that things are 'ok'.  Discord shows hundreds of people being online, where the forums and servers show the true activity.  The online count by no means marks activity or 'health'.  I had seen people in the past use that as a suggestion years past that discord was doing better than the forums, but truth be told I'm in about 20 discord channels, and I haven't touched 19 of them in at least a couple years...  I have a feeling you are in many too, that you never even glance at.  

We want to move to discord because we actually interact and participate there, and it makes it easier for us to get things going. There are tools on there that are much better than here. Yes forums has some nice info dump potential which is why I've suggest the news/event tab which doesn't necessarily need to be backed by forums though it can, but the preference is 95% of the forum categories that are here are moved to discord.

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

Just checking in to see if there has been any more staff talk regarding this?  Really losing faith in the future of SG with this, especially after reading what I hope was a joke thread about 'rebranding' SG.

This thread has had discussions + the discord which you basically didn't participate in at all aside from last night.

Read the rebrand thread dude, some people agreed it was a good idea. Just because YOU disagree doesn't make it a joke, it was worth having a conversation about, and man oh man you just dismiss everything you dislike. And accuse Dom of doing exactly that, when you do it yourself.

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

It is not the brand, it is not the servers, it is the direction, it is the leadership, it is the lack of initiative to actually stick with something.

Trying to provide direction on where to go instead of doing nothing all day. We have CS2 servers we're working on and want to expand the discord usage more and more and reduce the forums more and more. We've been actively working on that the last week and even before that when we started shifting some things around.

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

If you really want to see things move forward, you have to build some morale within the community.  You have to get people motivated.

Every post you make in this thread and in discord is shitting on the community and saying it's not like the old days. Like we're literally out here trying to baseline stuff and get going again and you're constantly shitting on everything we do.

 

You sit here saying we have no direction.

Then you say the direction is wrong.

 

Then you say we have no leadership.

Then you say the leadership doesn't listen to anything you're saying and that we only want to do our own ideas.

 

Then you say you need to listen to the community.

Then you say those other guys aren't part of the community and that you need to listen to you and a few other people in this thread.

Then you ignore when people agree with me about the forums and try to fan it off

 

You're just jumping arguments for the sake of arguing, you want to make us look bad and try to twist the argument in that direction. One page is something completely different about dom, then it's about how dom isn't around, then it's about how we don't listen, then it's about how we don't respond.

 

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

reaking Bob Loblaw spent countless hours with me and a group of four other APPRENTICES drilling the rules into our head and the suitable punishment for us.  It was a classroom.  I had to be there at a certain time.  The organization was unreal; and very impressive.  You know what type of leadership that took?  Of course you don't, we haven't seen that type of organization in SG since it started to fall into the drain

I don't know what this has to do with ANYTHING in present day SG.

 

 

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

Of course you don't, we haven't seen that type of organization in SG since it started to fall into the drain.  I get it though, people have lives.  People have to move forward.  We all grew up.  We have jobs.  We have families.  But, where we failed, is passing that mantle when we cannot do this type of activity.  People got selfish and wanted to see themselves in the seat of power.  Things were neglected, and our system was slowly lost.

You said it yourself people got busy and moved on. So why should we cater to people like you who slink into inactivity like yourself? Why are we trying to build a GAMING community around what you want rather than what our active playerbase wants and needs? Why are we appealing to someone who, before last night, had 15 discord messages. Who had, what, 10 posts in the last 3 years? You're not around dude, and you come back once in a blue moon to just blast us and tell us we're wrong about X, Y, Z. Shit at least delirium is around once and a while, it at least gives more credence to his arguments than yours.

 

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

There was no chance of coming back.

Most people who got permed came back, and that isn't new, that was happening 09 and onward. Shit a lot of people who got permed even back in the day got admin back over time if they were older/more mature.

 

On 12/3/2023 at 1:10 AM, Spiritwind said:

If you call yourself a leader, be a leader.  If you want to 'rebrand' or completely tear SG down with the hopes of building it into something it isn't - than leave and do just that (and watch your idea of what would work fail all over again).  

So which is it, we lead the place into a direction you disagree with, or get the fuck out and do it in a different community? lol

 

On 12/4/2023 at 3:14 PM, Jake said:

Also, the amount of threads that propose big changes and literally never go anywhere is crazy. This community is essentially all talk, no action.

Dom's last 3 threads were future plans regarding CS2 and trying other things (which we did minecraft and rust).

The second thread was rebranding, which didn't go anywhere because even internally we couldn't agree. I would say I was probably the main driver outside of what discussions BD's had (i do not have access to that), but I know caution or dom had mentioned talking about it before. It was in part difficult to pick something that worked.

 

On 12/5/2023 at 5:54 PM, Spiritwind said:

You have been doing your best to bury it and move on since the conversation here got started.

This was posted thanksgiving weekend and I was spending holidays with my family like most people. Once I got back I ran a lethal company event that had good draw and have had 5+ people ask me to do more, and we have been playing TTT. When I finally had time, I started responding. Do some people want this thread buried? Yeah because 4-5 people proceeded to lose their mind and we locked it for what, a day? Staff have posted in this thread multiple times even after the explosion of tomfoolery.

But you brought in your personal beef with Dom which seemed to be based on a lot of mischaracterizations and also 3 year old beef nobody here gives a shit about aside from people who feel spited after all these years.

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

So much for being open to criticism and you welcome this sort of talk.   

Brother he didn't say anything about your posts regarding criticism he just doesn't get why you are riding him so hard when you barely know him and don't actually know the fundamental details in the background.

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

I'm just calling you out, and you aren't use to that.

I barely know the guy and even I know this is so far from the absolute truth

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Your admins aren't going to call you out, they don't want to 'end up banned' like half the people who commented support.

This is the most untrue shit I've ever seen you post thus far. I'll defer on the relevant parties to reveal those details (some were in discord), but during and after the meeting regarding the bans that were handed out from the incident involving this thread that happened mainly on discord, staff were calling out other staff on shit. Literally nothing here whatsoever has been unanimously agreed upon by staff aside from some obvious stuff. Dom is 100% not immune to criticism or disagreement at ANY time by ANYONE here. And saying otherwise without any proof is just so par for the course for you at this point.

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

This is a community after all, they are the ones that matter.  

And the admins right now are some of the most active members playing on the servers as well, and I don't think any active staff really have a problem with Dom. Delirium said it himself, the community will not revive itself, we must. So we are actively pulling in new players, they do not care about Dom, nobody is begging us on TTT to get Dom to resign. This is solely the objective of you and a few select members who have basically checked out and many have self admitted in sg's discord and other discords that they no longer care about SG.

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Also, most of your staff thinks the same.  They just don't want to get pushed out of the social group.  

Another comment with no proof or backbone, but this is par for the course for you.

 

23 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Way to try and belittle and disregard the criticism though.

Dude Dom has been pretty respectful to you, but I've definitely lost my patience with you. You're utterly convinced your word is law and nobody else is right. You say that the people we pull into gmod TTT are nothing in comparison to back in the day, but they are our ACTIVE playerbase, our ACTIVE community and we are geared around them and other projects. You say we don't listen, we do. We listen to the playerbase who participates in discord, and features and asks have happened. Does that mean we agree with every suggestion ever made? Of course not. If you suggest a map on TTT and Elf denies it, does that mean he doesn't listen? Of course not, he's added many suggested maps, and the ones he doesn't like he gives criticism and explanation on. You've been given hours of my time and others time in here and in Discord and you literally just shrug it off and scream at us that we don't listen. I've provided mountains of evidence to you, mountains of proof, mountains of explanations, and you just make comments like this non stop:

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

As pointed out in discord chat, nowhere in the Gmod Server does it mention the forums, but right off the bat it mentions discord.

We advertised the forums first and changed it and that ended up working out much better for player pull/retention on our platforms.

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

As delirium pointed out, you have people who have been members for 15 years commenting on this thread.  

Yeah and we have plenty of old and new heads posting way more on discord too, which we already talked about in discord.

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

That is where our leadership has failed.  At least one spot.  To make a community, you have to form an environment people want to be a part of. 

Discord has people actually engaging and posting memes (including me) and discussing dumb shit, politics, etc. We are building a "new" community, but we need to actually build a hospitable discord with people in it who want to talk about something other than jank ass politics/drama. That's EXACTLY why some people were handed bans from discord/forums, because they came into discord with their baggage and started posting pictures of dogs fucking and insulting people, and discord actually maintains relatively low drama rates compared to the forum threads here. Probably because most people in discord don't carry the extreme baggage some of you guys here do.

I could tell last night you tried to fish on why BR got banned and you first tried to minimize it and say "well it's not that big of a deal" then when I added more context you said "seems like a pretty complex story" when it really was not. It was not complicated or nuanced whatsoever.

 

 

 

Discord comments:
 

Quote

>Of course they are going to join discord and not the forums, discord is thrown in their face the second they join, with 0 mention of the forums.

We used to link the forums in the server hostname for gmod ttt for many months and found better reception changing it to discord.

Quote

 

spiritwind: Truth is, they will leave. Your idea is forcing the community sticking around there onto here, in hopes of generating some activity.

 

jazzy: we're having a discussion, me holding you accountable to actually back up statements like "everyone will leave if you push to discord" or calling this place a shoutbox is just misguided

spiritwind: Its impossible to backup a statement like that. It just comes from common knowledge Jazzy.

 

Spiritwind OPENLY admits he's inactive here, doesn't participate, and has left due to mismanagement before.

The people who are here, who participate are in discord, already, they're over there. Ejivis is one of the people saying leave the forums alone and he is far, far more active in discord than the forums. Why? Because the rest of us use discord, because we prefer using discord, because discord has way more cooler features and way more active interaction.

I also just love this "common knowledge" trope. Spiritwind called our usage of discord a "fancy shoutbox" like use discord for more than 30 minutes and you'll realize how absolutely nice it is to use. You can play a CS clone with your friends in vc on discord. fancy shoutbox? It's like calling a computer a fancy newspaper

 

Spiritwind said things on discord like "if we all used shoutbox, all the fanboys would use it" does anyone reading this ACTUALLY believe statements like this that we would have even remotely as much interaction with anyone on sb over discord? Shoutbox BLOWS dude.

You literally called Foz a bot because he issued bot commands. You don't even know one of our more active members who still does mapping for our TTT server. You're literally so detached from this place you think one of our members is a BOT.

 

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Point is, you are drawing in a useless crowd.  It will not build SG up.  It is a placebo of numbers.  You admit as much yourself.  But, the numbers help you feel like its a success, so you want to remove one of the true indicators of the pace things are actually at. 

I'm responding to this in a completely separate post because it will be a bit longer (actually just edited this post below)

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

 

Terrible at data management.  

Terrible at providing information.

Very disorganized and overwhelming for new people with walls of information.

Terrible amounts of useless bot spam that blow out 'stats' that make things look more active.

Does not stand out from the other mass of 1000s of gaming communities.  Just another generic channel in the horde.  

Useless donations with 'perks' that don't actually seem to do anything real to help.

No google seo.  No email gathering.  No user retention.

Data management? What?

Providing information is done in strict #info channels or pinning messages in thread channels, or prompts via new user joins, as well as on demand pinging of roles/groups

There's nothing disorganized about discord in comparison to the forums. channels, categories, they're all relatively the same thing. Walls of information makes no sense. 

It's really not that disorganized or "overwhelming" lol, I don't know what you're talking about especially after karma's changes.

Useless bot spam is kept in #bots aside from dyno spam warnings iirc

Does not stand out yet we had forums when every community had forums. Discord is federated in the sense all communities can leverage the same accounts so it's easier for users to jump between communities. We want users to maintain mobility because mobility helps us just as much as anyone else. You and/or delirium think because users can easily have new standup discords, it's a bad thing. It's the opposite, having the ability for users to quickly join discords and chat means we can get them hooked with our community with our special sauce. Can they leave just as easily? Of course, and that's totally fine. We don't want users to feel restricted or require they join, we want them to come play because they enjoy playing here, and stay here as a result.

Useless donations - and the forums have...?

Google SEO, who gives a fuck lol. Discord has public servers and if we can start ranking higher you literally just start getting flyby people who look because of logo/description/member count. Email gathering? When the fuck has SG ever sent an email out?
User retention? They can stay in the discord and potentially come back any time. Everytime they open discord, assuming they do not leave the server, we will be one or two clicks away from them viewing our content.

 

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

 

Easy data management. 

Easy Information Tool.

Looks professional.

Sets us aside from the horde of failing gaming communities.

Google SEO and search result potential

Looks professional? Are we trying to impress some businessmen in suits? Should I show my boss this site?

Sets us aside from who?

Google SEO and search result potential to find what, maybe our old domain steamgamers.com or maybe our new domain if they assume it's not a steam scam website like the 900 million various of steamgames4u?

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Server Tracking.

Realistic user interaction statistics.

Easy to research prior information and events.

Email gathering to help with long term retention through event announcements (why don't we have a newsletter?)

Already have 23,000+ members

Long term users visit the forums regularly.  Helps to show that SG has been around, and will be around if the right choices are made.

Future possibilities are endless.  The forums can be molded into whatever we want.  Discord can only be molded into what discord wants (or spam bots people have created).  

IS THE FOUNDATION ON WHICH SG HAS BEEN BUILT

You can track servers on discord, lol

Realistic user interaction stats, why do you think discord doesn't supply anything? We can gladly do just about any "metrics" based report on discord as we do on the forums

Easy to research prior info and events, I never said we can't have a wordpress type blog for event/news archives, but even then, we can have thread channels just the same as the forums

Email gathering lol

23k members who do not come in. Didn't you say stuff about false statistics or placebo, yet you're trying to brag up 23k members on a forum barely anyone visits?

I love how discord bots are "spam bots" just the plugins used on forums are not. We can do various things with discord, and more. Discord has way more features than the forums from voice channels, streaming, public events, etc. I get the feeling you actually never use discord and know nothing about its extensibility and instead think it's some chatting app when it's really a hub for social communities to do just about everything a forum can do and 500x more.

 

The foundation on which SG has been built is interesting. ZM was the foundation that helped build SG, yet we do not host ZM anymore. Why? Because ZE largely killed ZM because it was a much better gamemode, and communities migrated all to ZE over ZM. This is a case where technology, ideas, software (plugins/maps) improved greatly. ZM died because it was a fundamentally less interesting gamemode. Forums are dying because they are fundamentally less useful to the average gamer than Discord. That is why Discord is basically the #1 most used chatting app. In 2015/16/17 it was a nice to have but at this point it's the household staple that every computer has installed. It has a functional mobile app that makes it. even easier to chat on. How many people do you see loading forums apps on their phone? But just about every phone a kid has from age 12 to 25 has discord on it. Why? Because discord is one of the most popular apps to ever exist in the world and there's an entire base of people who join public servers (like ours) who can easily join our community with an already federated account that shares data like username, avatars, nitro boost, etc.

 

The reason you hate discord is because you literally don't understand it. Forums are dying all across the world because discord is replacing them. You're literally arguing for staying with the printing press over the computer. It's so boomer it hurts

 

 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

Now all that attention is on Discord, and it's not really generating very much beyond what the shoutbox previously accomplished.

Just utterly so detached from reality that is discord functionality it's beyond belief. If you honestly think the shoutbox was generating the same level of interactivity between players here as our discord is, you're lost, and this conversation is moot.

 

Delirium things:
 

19 hours ago, delirium said:

the difference is with discord it is so much easier to bubble your friend group out of the main community discord which leads to a perception of inactivity when it comes to voice chat which in turn makes discord a glorified shout box.

That was a major problem way before discord even existed. Or are you trying to revise history that there weren't dozens of different vent/ts3's of different groups? Or the fact that many, many people who used vent/ts3 didn't just use locked channels anyway? That had always been a topic of debate and it partially drove a lot of people out of ts3 back in the day because people were tired of admins moving people in/out of channels. Ejivis said it the other day and it's pretty much exactly true today as it was 8 years ago:
"you have no incentive to join here because youd rather be in your own private discords where you can control everything as you see fit"

The reason these spun off servers were popular was so people could basically break SG rules without getting caught. People found their friend group they mesh with, shipped off and did that. Like this has happened since day 1, it's not a new problem, and it won't ever stop even if forums were the only avenue. I think this is a really lame take and for someone who goes off on people and calls people/ideas retarded or people dense, this is pretty much a complete red herring. Also, vc will still need to exist, and the forums provide no solutions for that.

 

19 hours ago, delirium said:

Should all of it be handled on discord? absolutely not.

And nobody has said ALL of it will be handled on discord, but the vast majority can and will eventually.

 

19 hours ago, delirium said:

responding on points that were not addressed to you seems a bit retarded and is becoming of a strawman but if you feel like your activity is low you're welcome to do whatever you like.

exact quote from you last night: "brother if i was still on the board i'd consider demoting you just based off of that but would probably let it play out"

yeah bro, you're definitely not addressing my position here and your "feelings" about me

 

 

 

edit1:
 

11 hours ago, Spiritwind said:

That is where our leadership has failed.  At least one spot.  To make a community, you have to form an environment people want to be a part of.  When you joined, you didn't just stick to a single server.  No, you joined the forums, discovered we had more to offer, and then got banned.  Point is, you are drawing in a useless crowd.  It will not build SG up.  It is a placebo of numbers.  You admit as much yourself.  But, the numbers help you feel like its a success, so you want to remove one of the true indicators of the pace things are actually at. 

I was going to write something up for this but honestly after reading "drawing in a useless crowd." I have to wonder how you define yourself, a more useful member than the 20+ people per week who we ping in discord/steam chat who join and participate?

 

You're so hyperfocused on "success" of the community you forgot that we have community members, randoms, people who are joining our server having fun.

 

You're a dick for calling anyone who plays on our servers "useless" to the community. God what an asshole. I've called servers like surf "park benches" of servers because they tend to be used by people who sit and leave, but even then, members use those park benches too and people sitting together can still have a fun time. Nobody who plays on our servers and plays to have fun and follow the rules will ever be useless to the community, I can promise you that.

[Mace]

It’s shameful to see what SG’s state has become over time. It’s even more shameful to see squabbling between former/current members instead of focusing on the problem at hand.

 

——— Structure ———

 

Before anything happens, the root issues must be addressed. You don’t build a house starting with the roof. The direction of our higher-ups is 100% an issue imo. Directions are talked about but not acted on due to a lack of support by other staff/members to help facilitate a successful initiative. We have a massive staff list yet how many of them actually take the time of day to become involved or ask “what can I do”? Very few.

 

I’m split between agreeing with @Spiritwind on the fact our highest ranks/leaders need replacing to reaffirm trust within the communities members or risking that happen and having someone else that wouldn’t do as well a job and finish SG permanently. SG for a long time has been going downhill and the Staff vs Members outlook is a major issue. We need a proper structure to establish reliability and responsibility within staff and tbh the current select few (as much as I like them and hold no ill feelings toward) aren’t fulfilling confidence in our members. Condensing staff as others have mentioned to have a more collective at the top seems like a decent start. It’s a drastic structure change BUT slight changes aren’t what’s going to get SG on ground it can stand on. 
 

Keeping Caution as president would be ok until he decides to hand off the reigns again, permanently but the VP role should be abolished. @Dominic may have people against him due to past actions and I’ll admit, myself included was not very happy to see him let back in after all the fires I had to help put out years ago as most of the in server incidents regarding him was on server(s) I managed.. as well as BoM, myself and our guys in MKT having to counteract the advertising for his community. BUT since he has come back, I’ve seen dedication and an effort put forward by him. I do believe he wants the best for SG and I trust that he won’t give that up as many of us multiple times former staff have lost our drive to take an active role in SG affairs, he has not. Politics and shit has gotta be put to the side.

 

@DominicI like you but to me at least it seems clear that quite a few members don’t have confidence in you holding VP. Thank you for being transparent and asking if you should step down. Although I don’t believe booting you out of an influential position is the way. Having some sort of “council” (with you included) as mentioned with a group of 6-7 pers at the helm with 1-3 pers of them overseeing a group of 6-10 pers each would be more manageable. Instead of having one person oversee the bds as a VP would, maybe a Primary/Secondary/Tertiary system among the 1-3 pers overseeing different aspects of SG would work better. In the long run.

 

——— Forums ———

 

Dead.

 

Due to lack of players, lack of activity, split focus between Web/Discord & 100% because most active forum users have been banned and or left the community over drama/loss of interest due to community changes. It is now a place for former players to come back to and reminisce, talk to old friends or add into the occasional thread.

The forums should stay as the it will always be a core part of SG. In my opinion it should be left as is, spiced up now and then by staff but in influx of users is needed. People won’t use it if not even the staff do. (I’ll add more about the Forums another time)
 

There’s not many improvements that can be made without servers to drive in players. All in all.

 

———Servers———

 

This is a gaming community without anywhere to game right now! Looking at SG from an outside perspective

 

 It many games have community servers so the ones that do, we should be driving Tf into em. If another community has their foot in the door, kick em out! We are not in the place to be nice and not encroach on their “territory”. Not only having us move into new titles but also establishing connections with people already playing so we know how we should maneuver, to know what the playerbase likes is key (hence MKT shouldn’t having ever been axed. Information is what determines success or failure).

 

I’m gonna add more and maybe add corrections to things I’ve said here,  tomorrow or the next day, ideas may change or views may change. (Saying this before anyone dogpiles on something I’ve said, knowing it’s not definite). 

[delirium]

take a couple of breaths bud I know your adrenaline is still pumping from muting me.

 

 

Comparing creating your own ventrillo or teamspeak server to creating a free server in 2 clicks is asinine. It is infinitely easier to establish a discord than set up/pay for hosting on those mediums. You're being intentionally obtuse or intellectually dishonest with yourself if you really believe the two experiences are remotely the same. Locked channels didn't contribute to the perception of a dead server. You (not you personally) may not have been invited into every cool kids chat but its not even debatable that activity on those two platforms was infinitely more apparent at a glance than it ever has with discord for this community specifically. Anecdotal evidence of a few people being upset they were not as liked as they thought they were is not a reason to completely dismiss the fact that ts/vent had more VC activity than discord overall. 

 

Quote

The reason these spun off servers were popular was so people could basically break SG rules without getting caught. I think this is a really lame take and for someone who goes off on people and calls people/ideas retarded or people dense, this is pretty much a complete red herring. Also, vc will still need to exist, and the forums provide no solutions for that.

Regardless of the reasoning it still contributes to a lack of activity on the main server and directly correlates to "unwanted behavior" from groups that think they're hot shit. Again, not saying this didn't happen in the ts/vent era but it is infinitely easier to do these things on discord due to the differences in the way the applications function. While the namesake of the phrase wasn't employed you literally just used whataboutism to dismiss a point that only contributes to the main point which is "discord as your main hub doesn't build brand loyalty nearly as well as a centralized destination that doesn't have as much competition for attention as the forums" Which you refuse to address even though you posted a 15556 character line by line response to spiritwind.

 

 

Quote

And nobody has said ALL of it will be handled on discord, but the vast majority can and will eventually.

 

So what part of "archiving the forums" allows for any of the functions of the community that should be handled on the forums to, ya know, be handled on the forums? You gonna run things off of google docs or pastebin?

 

 

Quote

exact quote from you last night: "brother if i was still on the board i'd consider demoting you just based off of that but would probably let it play out"

yeah bro, you're definitely not addressing my position here and your "feelings" about me

In response to you saying that "it's okay if SG dies." Way to grab a promotion and immediately feed into the fatalistic nihilism that I referenced in a similar thread that you started in September. That kind of attitude is becoming of someone who I personally would have no faith to move the community forward into a spot that these threads aren't full of former staff essentially bouncing rocks off the leaderships heads asking what's going on here. 

 

My feelings about you are actually neutral. I don't know you well enough to comment on anything about you other than the information and decisions you put forth into the public light. If you do/say something I feel is dumb I will absolutely call you on it just like I will call anyone else out for shit takes and expect myself to be held accountable as well in that regard. Stop taking discussions/debates surrounding the direction the community is/should take (or any topic that people don't agree with you on) personally as you seem to currently be doing and you'll have a much better time here and in your personal/professional life as well.    

[jazzy]

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

Comparing creating your own ventrillo or teamspeak server to creating a free server in 2 clicks is asinine

Except you're neglecting that us having forums > discord doesn't stop this from existing. Discord still exists without our discord server or not. Saying we should focus on forums because discord players might make other discords and siphon people doesn't stop the existence of that exact problem, and in fact would probably exasperate it even worse because more people would jump into other people's discord than our own.

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

You're being intentionally obtuse or intellectually dishonest with yourself if you really believe the two experiences are remotely the same.

Yeah you're just neglecting to remember that this was a massive problem regardless of how "easy" or "hard" it was. There was easily half a dozen "micro" communities in SG while I was here in 09-2014. I was in 3 of them, lmfao.

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

dismiss the fact that ts/vent had more VC activity than discord overall. 

Yeah and trying to ignore discord and promote forums doesn't stop this from happening, it makes it far more likely our discord will never be used. We had ~8 people in tonight playing TTT followed by Lethal Company (though we obviously mute or deafen or both ourselves due to the gameplay fundamentals with that)

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

"unwanted behavior" from groups that think they're hot shit

Delirium you are literally the definition of unwanted behavior and probably part of the reason some people have refrained from even using our primary discord since >50% of the time I see you participate somewhere you can't help but call someone retarded or refer to their ideas as retarded. I muted you for 1d just now and you literally had to run to my DM's to double down and call him retarded again. Seriously, your attitude and interactions with people are just an example of the toxicity SG represented and why these micro communities exist, so people can either avoid people like you are participate in the same behavioral traits you exhibit free of any moderator's eyes.

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

So what part of "archiving the forums" allows for any of the functions of the community that should be handled on the forums to, ya know, be handled on the forums? You gonna run things off of google docs or pastebin?

 Already explained

 

52 minutes ago, delirium said:

In response to you saying that "it's okay if SG dies."

 

No Delirium, I said it's ok when stuff dies, because that's a natural part of life. Nothing lasts forever. And the point I made was how important it is to enjoy your limited life. I understand you are often angry here based on my limited conversations with you, but I want you to understand that if you're coming on here and getting angry non-stop, you should stop and leave and find something that brings you joy. I turn 30 in just a few short months... I could have maybe half my life ahead of me, or more, or less.... Spending time not enjoying myself trying to be on some sort of grind that brings no pleasure is no longer what I want in life. I would love to stay here and have fun for the next 20 years of my life, but if I ever stop coming here, it's because I stopped enjoying my time here and found new places to enjoy myself.

 

That is not to say I am complacent in any part of my life. I am not checked out, burned out, and bored. I have new challenges here and everywhere. But I also understand that anyone who comes in here who isn't excited to be here, should know that there are greener pastures out there, and better fits for them and those around them. If you think I have some "losing mentality" (your words, not mine) despite willing to write probably one of the longer posts on this forum just now in this thread, you truly are lost here.

 

I can tell you're a very passionate individual based on how you treat others but at the end of the day if you were the smartest man in my work's department and you left for a new job because you were unhappy in your current role, I would be nothing but ecstatic for you even if it meant my department might suffer as a result.

 

I care about the people here who come to enjoy the community portion and play on the servers, participate in the discord/forums, and who want to enjoy being here. Not the people who come here once in a blue moon to antagonize and argue (you). I hope as you reach new heights and develop new relationships you understand how fleeting this life is... That doesn't mean you shouldn't get upset or passionate.

 

Delirium 5 days ago: don't bother with SG that place is dead
Delirium a day ago: I'd demote you for being so "nihilistic" (you need to look up the definition of nihilism btw, because if you think someone saying "it's about having fun" is a nihilist, well, lol)

[delirium]

3 minutes ago, jazzy said:

Except you're neglecting that us having forums > discord doesn't stop this from existing. Discord still exists without our discord server or not. Saying we should focus on forums because discord players might make other discords and siphon people doesn't stop the existence of that exact problem, and in fact would probably exasperate it even worse because more people would jump into other people's discord than our own.

Never said you shouldn't focus on discord, I said your primary goal for long term player retention should be funneling people acquired from the servers/discord to the forums where the loyalty is actually built, not archiving and moving on from them.

 

5 minutes ago, jazzy said:

Yeah you're just neglecting to remember that this was a massive problem regardless of how "easy" or "hard" it was. There was easily half a dozen "micro" communities in SG while I was here in 09-2014. I was in 3 of them, lmfao.

Again never said it wasn't a problem, I said that it is infinitely easier to do so on discord. Complexity is certainly a barrier to entry for some but will not stop everyone.

 

7 minutes ago, jazzy said:

Yeah and trying to ignore discord and promote forums doesn't stop this from happening, it makes it far more likely our discord will never be used. We had ~8 people in tonight playing TTT followed by Lethal Company (though we obviously mute or deafen or both ourselves due to the gameplay fundamentals with that)

 

  Brother, what part of anything that I have typed indicates to you that I am telling the community to ignore discord completely? You're doing mental gymnastics at this point.

 

 

9 minutes ago, jazzy said:

Delirium you are literally the definition of unwanted behavior and probably part of the reason some people have refrained from even using our primary discord since >50% of the time I see you participate somewhere you can't help but call someone retarded or refer to their ideas as retarded. I muted you for 1d just now and you literally had to run to my DM's to double down and call him retarded again. Seriously, your attitude and interactions with people are just an example of the toxicity SG represented and why these micro communities exist, so people can either avoid people like you are participate in the same behavioral traits you exhibit free of any moderator's eyes.

That's an opinion of a frustrated internet hall monitor if I've ever seen one. I'm sure the 24 hours I've been back on SG's discord has deterred so much activity considering the only things i've posted is in relation to this debate, a wholesome conversation with @John about his cars, and a complete clowning of an actual moron. Of course I will double down on the statements I made after you muted me, I understand why you felt the need to do so but that doesn't automatically mean that what I said wasn't true. The person I was calling a brainlet is, in fact, a brainlet. No amount of coddling you do to curb people from voicing that will change that. I'm sorry that you're seething over someone telling you that your ideas are also partially retarded. If you cannot handle someone addressing your arguments on a topic as insignificant as you make all of this out to be then I can undoubtedly say you are not mentally fit to moderate any discussion regarding community aspects. You're literally demonizing my input because you personally don't agree and that makes you a manchild who places too much worth on being "right" instead of coming to a more nuanced solution. 

 

21 minutes ago, jazzy said:

 

Your solution to move everything to specific channels does nothing but contribute to disorganization dude, not sure what you don't understand about a glorified shoutbox is not the place to have longform discussions on any aspect of a gaming community. I've been trying to play relatively nice with you because I assumed you were a capable individual but its becoming more and more apparent that you cannot comprehend basic concepts of community and information management

 

 

25 minutes ago, jazzy said:

No Delirium, I said it's ok when stuff dies, because that's a natural part of life. Nothing lasts forever. And the point I made was how important it is to enjoy your limited life. I understand you are often angry here based on my limited conversations with you, but I want you to understand that if you're coming on here and getting angry non-stop, you should stop and leave and find something that brings you joy. I turn 30 in just a few short months... I could have maybe half my life ahead of me, or more, or less.... Spending time not enjoying myself trying to be on some sort of grind that brings no pleasure is no longer what I want in life. I would love to stay here and have fun for the next 20 years of my life, but if I ever stop coming here, it's because I stopped enjoying my time here and found new places to enjoy myself.

 

That is not to say I am complacent in any part of my life. I am not checked out, burned out, and bored. I have new challenges here and everywhere. But I also understand that anyone who comes in here who isn't excited to be here, should know that there are greener pastures out there, and better fits for them and those around them. If you think I have some "losing mentality" (your words, not mine) despite willing to write probably one of the longer posts on this forum just now in this thread, you truly are lost here.

 

I can tell you're a very passionate individual based on how you treat others but at the end of the day if you were the smartest man in my work's department and you left for a new job because you were unhappy in your current role, I would be nothing but ecstatic for you even if it meant my department might suffer as a result.

 

I care about the people here who come to enjoy the community portion and play on the servers, participate in the discord/forums, and who want to enjoy being here. Not the people who come here once in a blue moon to antagonize and argue (you). I hope as you reach new heights and develop new relationships you understand how fleeting this life is... That doesn't mean you shouldn't get upset or passionate.

You don't seem to be enjoying your time here at all to be honest. Characterizing dissent and debate as me "getting angry nonstop" is childish and indicative that you cannot handle adult conversations. You're almost 30 and upset that I'm not coddling your feelings while not agreeing with the direction you're proposing, would you rather me word it like this? "Hey buddy, you did a real good job coming up with neat ideas but I don't think what you worked so hard on is the entire direction we should be taking. it's okay though because I made you some dino nuggies and a juicebox for your effort"

 

I think there are greener pastures where you can be unbothered by people disagreeing with you over text that you read as "upset" when its not sugarcoated and coddling your ego. Are there moments where I am intentionally pressing buttons? Sure. That's the only way to get answers or any sort of reaction here sometimes. Is every post or comment I make here intentionally antagonistic? Nope. Your inability to differentiate between what you deem as "antagonistic" and an opposing viewpoint is going to further your inability to effectively manage any asset here or otherwise.

 

I'll play on the servers I enjoy playing on. The only semi active server you have is in a game I don't enjoy playing. Gatekeeping what a community member is is something you quite literally just foamed at the mouth for when it came from spiritwind.

 

 

40 minutes ago, jazzy said:

 

Because you came into IG's discord to clarify that you don't talk shit about Retro when quite literally no one asked.

 

I'll go ahead and double down on what I said there as well: I dont think you specifically should put much effort into reviving this community because you specifically are not built for it as evidenced by your very own attitude and posts within this thread.

 

You're about to turn thirty big guy, stop acting like a child that cant differentiate between someone not being 100% on board with your ideas and someone that is actively attacking you.

 

And for clarification: this post is actively attacking your character for not being able to handle a fucking different opinion over archiving an internet forum. Grow the fuck up and learn how collaboration works, it's rarely going to be 100% what jazzy wants in a group setting and the faster you can accept that people will have different opinions than you the faster you can grow beyond the fucking manchild you're acting like right now.  

[Huwajux]

7 hours ago, delirium said:

That's an opinion of a frustrated internet hall monitor if I've ever seen one. I'm sure the 24 hours I've been back on SG's discord has deterred so much activity considering the only things i've posted is in relation to this debate, a wholesome conversation with @John about his cars, and a complete clowning of an actual moron. Of course I will double down on the statements I made after you muted me, I understand why you felt the need to do so but that doesn't automatically mean that what I said wasn't true. The person I was calling a brainlet is, in fact, a brainlet. No amount of coddling you do to curb people from voicing that will change that. I'm sorry that you're seething over someone telling you that your ideas are also partially retarded. If you cannot handle someone addressing your arguments on a topic as insignificant as you make all of this out to be then I can undoubtedly say you are not mentally fit to moderate any discussion regarding community aspects. You're literally demonizing my input because you personally don't agree and that makes you a manchild who places too much worth on being "right" instead of coming to a more nuanced solution.

This feels like a lot of projection going on here. Jazzy has been responding to you pretty respectfully and you're just repeatedly snapping back at him with edgy and patronising comments. I get maybe one or two snide comments can happen in a disagreement, but everything you say is just dripping with bitterness. He's done you the courtesy so far of ignoring your provocations and staying focused on the actual discussion taking place, but do you really think you're going to get your points across successfully when you're acting like this? Come on, do better.

[Spiritwind]

Jazzy, your wall of posts is just you shitting on us and proving our point that SG is ran by tyranical people driving it into the ground.  SG is not doing well.  There are not active players.  Its top server is rank #250 in tracked servers in a SAME AS DEAD GAME.  Get real.  This place is a disaster, and your ideas have not been helping.

 

This is the sort of leadership that brought SG here.  I'm done with this conversation.  Dictators are going to be Dictators, and you, Dom, and Caution do not give two shits about SG.  All you care about is your title and the perceived power you get with it.  The fact you are completly disregarding and shitting on so many members of SG shows it.  This is what SG has become under your leadership.  Enjoy the ship you set sail on.  

[Spiritwind]

4 hours ago, Huwajux said:

This feels like a lot of projection going on here. Jazzy has been responding to you pretty respectfully and you're just repeatedly snapping back at him with edgy and patronising comments. I get maybe one or two snide comments can happen in a disagreement, but everything you say is just dripping with bitterness. He's done you the courtesy so far of ignoring your provocations and staying focused on the actual discussion taking place, but do you really think you're going to get your points across successfully when you're acting like this? Come on, do better.

Jazzy has been doing nothing but making "I know more than you and I'm the boss" posts.  Hes literally not given any ground at all on ANYTHING.  This has not been a discussion, not in the least.  Him and Dom have been doing their best to give the appearance of a convo, while really just flipping us the bird and trying to act like we are stupid and have no clue what is going on.  True leadership and true listening skills.  

 

SG is no longer a community, so many have spoken out about it, and so many have been banned or disregarded.  It just hits the nail further into the board.  

 

I urge you Huwa, read his long ass reply to me and tell me where that post isn't completely one sided and telling me to go fuck myself.

[Spiritwind]

14 hours ago, Mace said:

going downhill and the Staff vs Members outlook is a major issue.

This is exactly what this entire thread has been.  Members speaking out and staff having a conversation that consists of them trying to put a boot in it.  

[Spiritwind]

15 hours ago, jazzy said:

The people who are here, who participate are in discord, already, they're over there.

Yes, you banned the ones who werent because they spoke out against you.  Your excuses for banning them were plum stupid.  Your narassism is showing since your power was called out.