Forum Utilization / Reformatting

[Spiritwind]

@Caution

@Dominic

@jazzy

 

The most activity SG has seen in the last 2 years has been a thread calling for your resignation.  Let that sink in.  

 

You can post whatever you want defending yourselves, you can delete and ban however many +1 posts calling for your resignation; but it happened.  

 

That is the strength of your current leadership.  

[Starlegendgod]

Alright this is going nowhere...

 

Before this is escalated even more and we get a WGAW post with along the lines of "Spiritwind and Delirium have been banned for [some fucking reason]" I have a proposition:

1) Just lock this thread down this is just immature from both sides and it's clearly not getting us anywhere

2) let's have a proper SG meeting about this topic(we haven't had one in weeks) and see where we go from there

 

If you guys have the time to write essays on this, then most likely you have the time to show up. This bickering has been going on for weeks and I think im seeing a pattern and I don't like where it's heading.

 

[Elfbarf]

26 minutes ago, Spiritwind said:

@Caution

@Dominic

@jazzy

 

The most activity SG has seen in the last 2 years has been a thread calling for your resignation.  Let that sink in.  

 

You can post whatever you want defending yourselves, you can delete and ban however many +1 posts calling for your resignation; but it happened.  

 

That is the strength of your current leadership.  

lmao you're completely delusional

please take a break from posting

[Phoenix_]

  

On 11/27/2023 at 3:45 PM, Phoenix_ said:

It is pretty easy to propose what change should happen (imo), and here's the last idea I'll throw at this place in this thread:

 

• Further simplify the staff structure. No president, no supreme leader, just make kind of like an "executive council type shit". They would functionally be a board and work together, but they would properly have their tasks delegated to them to provide DIRECTION. Overall, just simplify and reduce the staff we have to people that want to be here so we don't have an inflated amount of staff that straight up don't look the community.  How, you may ask is this achievable? Something like this:
  • 7 "board members", two for each type of position, and one special position
    • 2 Technical leads, in charge of all technical aspects (discord upkeep, server technical issues, etc) - Nishok and Boto. Current tech team members would just remain as "Technical Staff"
    • 2 Server Leads, in charge of managing what few servers we have, making sure changes get pushed, events happen, etc. - ZeroTwo and Karma. Current AOs would be there to assist in running specific servers. 
    • 2 Community Leads, in charge of making community events and finding ways to push community interaction and fostering a welcoming and fun environment - Find two people for this (will explain below)
    • 1 Financial Manager, a hands off person who just makes sure the money is straight and that's their only job. - Caution, so yall didn't have to play switching accounts and whatever. He could stick around just making sure the money is right.
  • All current Server administrators could be asked if they want to retain their staff role. If so, allow them to be a discord moderator and admin for the few servers we still have
• Literally make a post on Discord announcements and be like "yo, we're looking for community leads to lead the community and blah blah blah (explained above)", make a google form and make some sort of vetting/interview process to find the best candidate. Would it be cool if it were someone already in the community? Yes. But, sometimes great ideas and innovation can come from an outside source. You're at a point where you need to make outreach and find ideas and inspiration from a stranger potentially. 

There's your (a proposed) solution. A change, activity, an attempt at pushing forward.

Just wanted to circle back around briefly. Has there been any sort of follow up to this or real discussion about this? Obviously I'm biased and think this idea is good and a step in the right direction for a community change. I know it got lost in the thread, but eh... Just wanted to see if this is in any sort of consideration. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Starlegendgod said:

Alright this is going nowhere...

 

Before this is escalated even more and we get a WGAW post with along the lines of "Spiritwind and Delirium have been banned for [some fucking reason]" I have a proposition:

1) Just lock this thread down this is just immature from both sides and it's clearly not getting us anywhere

2) let's have a proper SG meeting about this topic(we haven't had one in weeks) and see where we go from there

 

If you guys have the time to write essays on this, then most likely you have the time to show up. This bickering has been going on for weeks and I think im seeing a pattern and I don't like where it's heading.

 

 

1) Eh, I don't see a point. It feels like both sides are calming down and saying their peace and moving on. Maybe? I dunno.

 

2) No one will show. Even if they have the time to show up, they won't because the people being vocal feel as if their words won't be heard or utilized, so the people that do show will likely be all the ones from one side of the argument

 

You're not wrong about it getting nowhere though. Regardless of what side I'm on, this just feels like a microcasm of the US Congress at this point. It's "my way of thinking is better than yours" back and forth and there is no middle ground because neither side will deviate from their way for xyz reason for better or for worse. The arguing must be tiring atp and has detracted from the spread of ideas, which was at least the hope of this thread.

[delirium]

6 hours ago, Huwajux said:

This feels like a lot of projection going on here. Jazzy has been responding to you pretty respectfully and you're just repeatedly snapping back at him with edgy and patronising comments. I get maybe one or two snide comments can happen in a disagreement, but everything you say is just dripping with bitterness. He's done you the courtesy so far of ignoring your provocations and staying focused on the actual discussion taking place, but do you really think you're going to get your points across successfully when you're acting like this? Come on, do better.

Brother, what communications are you viewing? Outside of one post I have argued the points and not the person. your buddy wants to take shit personally and argue from a personal level so I did as well. literally only agree because yall are friends.

 

y'all wanna cover your eyes and pretend everyone who doesnt view the situation overall or whatever topic is being discussed the same way you do is bitter or assmad and dismiss entirely valid points just based off the way that you personally perceive the communications.

 

I hope your GMOD server explodes with population at the end of the day Huwa and leads to this place being as active as possible again. You hope that everyone just stops being "bitter" and leaves shit alone so it can be business as usual here and everyone can continue circlejerking in what has become an echo chamber where you pat yourselves on the back for doing close to nothing in comparison to what was.

 

 Continuing to mischaracterize people as "bitter" or "upset" or whatever dumb fucking take you have surrounding posts that want better for this community (even if misguided on some level) will lead you down the same exact path that got this place where its at today - devoid of people who care and are capable. there's a reason shit has continuously gone downhill for over 3 years and the responses (and non responses) I am seeing is just going to continue that.  

 

 

[Hawks]

Holy fuck this is still going on? When I got banned it was like 3-4 pages now its at 11?!?!?!

 

Read through a lot of this and man what a clusterfuck of back and forth this has brought on.

 

The facts are written many times in many posts, a lot of people have the right idea. Phoenix, Spiritwind, Deli, Gator, Extreme, Karma, Kable, Huwa and even Jazzy with his ENTIRE PAGE RESPONSE has some things of merit in there. [But for real compress that shit down next time]

Mind you I almost guarantee a response from Caution and or Dominic is in the works in a separate announcement from this post and I am curious on what the blanket coverage statement for this will be for this climactic event transpiring here.

 

I used to be a board member here, I enjoyed being in that position and for the majority of the time enjoyed working with Dom and Caution albeit the three of us have very different perspectives on almost everything. I have tasted and experienced what it is like to be in to top spot here and its not fun nor would I recommend anyone without the ability to argue for something they truly believe in to try and be a BD period. The reason I stepped down is completely work related but that said, I did leave with some influence that I would NEVER be able to argue a point across to Caution and Dominic as a tag team. Until those two and the rest of the board finish their chats we ain't gonna hear much. Who knows maybe this gets buried and forgotten but really would anyone who is active staff, a returning member, now banned ex staff member or even myself really give two shits about what comes of this in the weeks following the end of this pointless banter? If you do congratulations you are officially the 1% of people who remember and care about this place.

 

Matter of the fact is the BOARD needs to take action and relatively quickly now more then ever, cause man after this thread I would positively say the timer is definitely ticking on the life span of SG. Phoenix said it best in and earlier response on this thread ideas are just gonna pile up here and not actually have anything done about them.

 

I left in good spirits here hoping that some wisdom I shared would help pave a path or at least influence a mindset that is actually conducive to bettering a damaged community. I don't have the exact words but it went something like this.

"Focus on what we can be, not what we are"

And unfortunately we stayed the exact same as I left.

 

My final point is if multiple members of the community have the gall to name drop who is the problem it is completely delusional to write off their points as them being salty and just showing hate to the individuals. Every point that is legitimately brought to the table is a point worth weighing. 

 

End of the day folks, none of you will care 6 months down the line what transpired here. Take it in stride, take it critically but move the fuck on.

https://gyazo.com/c76814ba2cda6a7ce6f869ea17ff5fea really gonna hide this?

[Iota]

17 hours ago, jazzy said:

That's your personal opinion vs mine, Many more popular servers have landing pages and they definitely work. We need an easy way to immediately show people our discord, servers, and mainline events. Current landing doesn't solve this.

If when you launch a webpage that shows a discord server with active players online, servers with (hopefully) people, and you think it's "dead" because you can't find the forums, idk bro. Think about a normal person's perspective who just plays video games and not your own.

 

Also I wonder how many "old players" think sg is dead because they go to steamgamers.com, or have you forgotten that?

Can we really say you're bothering with this place rn if all you've done in the last 2 years is post in this thread?

We seed TTT almost daily and can almost always cap out 1x a week. I play like 10-15 hours a week of it.

I asked in discord and it seems these accusations are not complete accurate? I think being hyperbolic to prove your argument is not something that is going to help said argument.

When we try to start providing direction and saying what we want to do, you threaten to "not bother with SG"

 

Dominic, Revenga, Karma, me all posted directions we want to take the community in regards to discord/forums. We are trying to make it better, you just disagree so you think we're making it worse. We're providing direction on where we want to take some of our "tools."

 

I'm sure me spending my time arguing with you about it will help it recover.

 

We want to move to discord because we actually interact and participate there, and it makes it easier for us to get things going. There are tools on there that are much better than here. Yes forums has some nice info dump potential which is why I've suggest the news/event tab which doesn't necessarily need to be backed by forums though it can, but the preference is 95% of the forum categories that are here are moved to discord.

 

This thread has had discussions + the discord which you basically didn't participate in at all aside from last night.

Read the rebrand thread dude, some people agreed it was a good idea. Just because YOU disagree doesn't make it a joke, it was worth having a conversation about, and man oh man you just dismiss everything you dislike. And accuse Dom of doing exactly that, when you do it yourself.

 

Trying to provide direction on where to go instead of doing nothing all day. We have CS2 servers we're working on and want to expand the discord usage more and more and reduce the forums more and more. We've been actively working on that the last week and even before that when we started shifting some things around.

 

Every post you make in this thread and in discord is shitting on the community and saying it's not like the old days. Like we're literally out here trying to baseline stuff and get going again and you're constantly shitting on everything we do.

 

You sit here saying we have no direction.

Then you say the direction is wrong.

 

Then you say we have no leadership.

Then you say the leadership doesn't listen to anything you're saying and that we only want to do our own ideas.

 

Then you say you need to listen to the community.

Then you say those other guys aren't part of the community and that you need to listen to you and a few other people in this thread.

Then you ignore when people agree with me about the forums and try to fan it off

 

You're just jumping arguments for the sake of arguing, you want to make us look bad and try to twist the argument in that direction. One page is something completely different about dom, then it's about how dom isn't around, then it's about how we don't listen, then it's about how we don't respond.

 

 

I don't know what this has to do with ANYTHING in present day SG.

 

 

 

You said it yourself people got busy and moved on. So why should we cater to people like you who slink into inactivity like yourself? Why are we trying to build a GAMING community around what you want rather than what our active playerbase wants and needs? Why are we appealing to someone who, before last night, had 15 discord messages. Who had, what, 10 posts in the last 3 years? You're not around dude, and you come back once in a blue moon to just blast us and tell us we're wrong about X, Y, Z. Shit at least delirium is around once and a while, it at least gives more credence to his arguments than yours.

 

 

Most people who got permed came back, and that isn't new, that was happening 09 and onward. Shit a lot of people who got permed even back in the day got admin back over time if they were older/more mature.

 

So which is it, we lead the place into a direction you disagree with, or get the fuck out and do it in a different community? lol

 

Dom's last 3 threads were future plans regarding CS2 and trying other things (which we did minecraft and rust).

The second thread was rebranding, which didn't go anywhere because even internally we couldn't agree. I would say I was probably the main driver outside of what discussions BD's had (i do not have access to that), but I know caution or dom had mentioned talking about it before. It was in part difficult to pick something that worked.

 

This was posted thanksgiving weekend and I was spending holidays with my family like most people. Once I got back I ran a lethal company event that had good draw and have had 5+ people ask me to do more, and we have been playing TTT. When I finally had time, I started responding. Do some people want this thread buried? Yeah because 4-5 people proceeded to lose their mind and we locked it for what, a day? Staff have posted in this thread multiple times even after the explosion of tomfoolery.

But you brought in your personal beef with Dom which seemed to be based on a lot of mischaracterizations and also 3 year old beef nobody here gives a shit about aside from people who feel spited after all these years.

 

Brother he didn't say anything about your posts regarding criticism he just doesn't get why you are riding him so hard when you barely know him and don't actually know the fundamental details in the background.

 

I barely know the guy and even I know this is so far from the absolute truth

 

This is the most untrue shit I've ever seen you post thus far. I'll defer on the relevant parties to reveal those details (some were in discord), but during and after the meeting regarding the bans that were handed out from the incident involving this thread that happened mainly on discord, staff were calling out other staff on shit. Literally nothing here whatsoever has been unanimously agreed upon by staff aside from some obvious stuff. Dom is 100% not immune to criticism or disagreement at ANY time by ANYONE here. And saying otherwise without any proof is just so par for the course for you at this point.

 

And the admins right now are some of the most active members playing on the servers as well, and I don't think any active staff really have a problem with Dom. Delirium said it himself, the community will not revive itself, we must. So we are actively pulling in new players, they do not care about Dom, nobody is begging us on TTT to get Dom to resign. This is solely the objective of you and a few select members who have basically checked out and many have self admitted in sg's discord and other discords that they no longer care about SG.

 

Another comment with no proof or backbone, but this is par for the course for you.

 

Dude Dom has been pretty respectful to you, but I've definitely lost my patience with you. You're utterly convinced your word is law and nobody else is right. You say that the people we pull into gmod TTT are nothing in comparison to back in the day, but they are our ACTIVE playerbase, our ACTIVE community and we are geared around them and other projects. You say we don't listen, we do. We listen to the playerbase who participates in discord, and features and asks have happened. Does that mean we agree with every suggestion ever made? Of course not. If you suggest a map on TTT and Elf denies it, does that mean he doesn't listen? Of course not, he's added many suggested maps, and the ones he doesn't like he gives criticism and explanation on. You've been given hours of my time and others time in here and in Discord and you literally just shrug it off and scream at us that we don't listen. I've provided mountains of evidence to you, mountains of proof, mountains of explanations, and you just make comments like this non stop:

We advertised the forums first and changed it and that ended up working out much better for player pull/retention on our platforms.

 

Yeah and we have plenty of old and new heads posting way more on discord too, which we already talked about in discord.

 

Discord has people actually engaging and posting memes (including me) and discussing dumb shit, politics, etc. We are building a "new" community, but we need to actually build a hospitable discord with people in it who want to talk about something other than jank ass politics/drama. That's EXACTLY why some people were handed bans from discord/forums, because they came into discord with their baggage and started posting pictures of dogs fucking and insulting people, and discord actually maintains relatively low drama rates compared to the forum threads here. Probably because most people in discord don't carry the extreme baggage some of you guys here do.

I could tell last night you tried to fish on why BR got banned and you first tried to minimize it and say "well it's not that big of a deal" then when I added more context you said "seems like a pretty complex story" when it really was not. It was not complicated or nuanced whatsoever.

 

 

 

Discord comments:
 

We used to link the forums in the server hostname for gmod ttt for many months and found better reception changing it to discord.

Spiritwind OPENLY admits he's inactive here, doesn't participate, and has left due to mismanagement before.

The people who are here, who participate are in discord, already, they're over there. Ejivis is one of the people saying leave the forums alone and he is far, far more active in discord than the forums. Why? Because the rest of us use discord, because we prefer using discord, because discord has way more cooler features and way more active interaction.

I also just love this "common knowledge" trope. Spiritwind called our usage of discord a "fancy shoutbox" like use discord for more than 30 minutes and you'll realize how absolutely nice it is to use. You can play a CS clone with your friends in vc on discord. fancy shoutbox? It's like calling a computer a fancy newspaper

 

Spiritwind said things on discord like "if we all used shoutbox, all the fanboys would use it" does anyone reading this ACTUALLY believe statements like this that we would have even remotely as much interaction with anyone on sb over discord? Shoutbox BLOWS dude.

You literally called Foz a bot because he issued bot commands. You don't even know one of our more active members who still does mapping for our TTT server. You're literally so detached from this place you think one of our members is a BOT.

 

 

I'm responding to this in a completely separate post because it will be a bit longer (actually just edited this post below)

 

Data management? What?

Providing information is done in strict #info channels or pinning messages in thread channels, or prompts via new user joins, as well as on demand pinging of roles/groups

There's nothing disorganized about discord in comparison to the forums. channels, categories, they're all relatively the same thing. Walls of information makes no sense. 

It's really not that disorganized or "overwhelming" lol, I don't know what you're talking about especially after karma's changes.

Useless bot spam is kept in #bots aside from dyno spam warnings iirc

Does not stand out yet we had forums when every community had forums. Discord is federated in the sense all communities can leverage the same accounts so it's easier for users to jump between communities. We want users to maintain mobility because mobility helps us just as much as anyone else. You and/or delirium think because users can easily have new standup discords, it's a bad thing. It's the opposite, having the ability for users to quickly join discords and chat means we can get them hooked with our community with our special sauce. Can they leave just as easily? Of course, and that's totally fine. We don't want users to feel restricted or require they join, we want them to come play because they enjoy playing here, and stay here as a result.

Useless donations - and the forums have...?

Google SEO, who gives a fuck lol. Discord has public servers and if we can start ranking higher you literally just start getting flyby people who look because of logo/description/member count. Email gathering? When the fuck has SG ever sent an email out?
User retention? They can stay in the discord and potentially come back any time. Everytime they open discord, assuming they do not leave the server, we will be one or two clicks away from them viewing our content.

 

 

Looks professional? Are we trying to impress some businessmen in suits? Should I show my boss this site?

Sets us aside from who?

Google SEO and search result potential to find what, maybe our old domain steamgamers.com or maybe our new domain if they assume it's not a steam scam website like the 900 million various of steamgames4u?

 

You can track servers on discord, lol

Realistic user interaction stats, why do you think discord doesn't supply anything? We can gladly do just about any "metrics" based report on discord as we do on the forums

Easy to research prior info and events, I never said we can't have a wordpress type blog for event/news archives, but even then, we can have thread channels just the same as the forums

Email gathering lol

23k members who do not come in. Didn't you say stuff about false statistics or placebo, yet you're trying to brag up 23k members on a forum barely anyone visits?

I love how discord bots are "spam bots" just the plugins used on forums are not. We can do various things with discord, and more. Discord has way more features than the forums from voice channels, streaming, public events, etc. I get the feeling you actually never use discord and know nothing about its extensibility and instead think it's some chatting app when it's really a hub for social communities to do just about everything a forum can do and 500x more.

 

The foundation on which SG has been built is interesting. ZM was the foundation that helped build SG, yet we do not host ZM anymore. Why? Because ZE largely killed ZM because it was a much better gamemode, and communities migrated all to ZE over ZM. This is a case where technology, ideas, software (plugins/maps) improved greatly. ZM died because it was a fundamentally less interesting gamemode. Forums are dying because they are fundamentally less useful to the average gamer than Discord. That is why Discord is basically the #1 most used chatting app. In 2015/16/17 it was a nice to have but at this point it's the household staple that every computer has installed. It has a functional mobile app that makes it. even easier to chat on. How many people do you see loading forums apps on their phone? But just about every phone a kid has from age 12 to 25 has discord on it. Why? Because discord is one of the most popular apps to ever exist in the world and there's an entire base of people who join public servers (like ours) who can easily join our community with an already federated account that shares data like username, avatars, nitro boost, etc.

 

The reason you hate discord is because you literally don't understand it. Forums are dying all across the world because discord is replacing them. You're literally arguing for staying with the printing press over the computer. It's so boomer it hurts

 

 

Just utterly so detached from reality that is discord functionality it's beyond belief. If you honestly think the shoutbox was generating the same level of interactivity between players here as our discord is, you're lost, and this conversation is moot.

 

Delirium things:
 

That was a major problem way before discord even existed. Or are you trying to revise history that there weren't dozens of different vent/ts3's of different groups? Or the fact that many, many people who used vent/ts3 didn't just use locked channels anyway? That had always been a topic of debate and it partially drove a lot of people out of ts3 back in the day because people were tired of admins moving people in/out of channels. Ejivis said it the other day and it's pretty much exactly true today as it was 8 years ago:
"you have no incentive to join here because youd rather be in your own private discords where you can control everything as you see fit"

The reason these spun off servers were popular was so people could basically break SG rules without getting caught. People found their friend group they mesh with, shipped off and did that. Like this has happened since day 1, it's not a new problem, and it won't ever stop even if forums were the only avenue. I think this is a really lame take and for someone who goes off on people and calls people/ideas retarded or people dense, this is pretty much a complete red herring. Also, vc will still need to exist, and the forums provide no solutions for that.

 

And nobody has said ALL of it will be handled on discord, but the vast majority can and will eventually.

 

exact quote from you last night: "brother if i was still on the board i'd consider demoting you just based off of that but would probably let it play out"

yeah bro, you're definitely not addressing my position here and your "feelings" about me

 

 

 

edit1:
 

I was going to write something up for this but honestly after reading "drawing in a useless crowd." I have to wonder how you define yourself, a more useful member than the 20+ people per week who we ping in discord/steam chat who join and participate?

 

You're so hyperfocused on "success" of the community you forgot that we have community members, randoms, people who are joining our server having fun.

 

You're a dick for calling anyone who plays on our servers "useless" to the community. God what an asshole. I've called servers like surf "park benches" of servers because they tend to be used by people who sit and leave, but even then, members use those park benches too and people sitting together can still have a fun time. Nobody who plays on our servers and plays to have fun and follow the rules will ever be useless to the community, I can promise you that.

 

Arrr! The heart of the debate be the course of our gaming haven, SG (SteamGamers). Spiritwind be raisin' concerns 'bout removin' forums and leanin' towards Discord, fearin' it might scuttle community bonds. Others be singin' praises for Discord, hailin' its interactive treasures. Disputes be brewin' 'bout leadership, course settin', and how SG be seen in the current seas. The talk sails into matters like trackin' servers, user interactions, and the grand plan for buildin' community. The quarrel marks a division 'twixt those lovin' the old forums and them cheerin' for a Discord-centered voyage.

[jazzy]

1 minute ago, Iota said:

 

Arrr! The heart of the debate be the course of our gaming haven, SG (SteamGamers). Spiritwind be raisin' concerns 'bout removin' forums and leanin' towards Discord, fearin' it might scuttle community bonds. Others be singin' praises for Discord, hailin' its interactive treasures. Disputes be brewin' 'bout leadership, course settin', and how SG be seen in the current seas. The talk sails into matters like trackin' servers, user interactions, and the grand plan for buildin' community. The quarrel marks a division 'twixt those lovin' the old forums and them cheerin' for a Discord-centered voyage.

I doth not peruse such extensive scripts

[FanService]

4 minutes ago, Iota said:

 

Arrr! The heart of the debate be the course of our gaming haven, SG (SteamGamers). Spiritwind be raisin' concerns 'bout removin' forums and leanin' towards Discord, fearin' it might scuttle community bonds. Others be singin' praises for Discord, hailin' its interactive treasures. Disputes be brewin' 'bout leadership, course settin', and how SG be seen in the current seas. The talk sails into matters like trackin' servers, user interactions, and the grand plan for buildin' community. The quarrel marks a division 'twixt those lovin' the old forums and them cheerin' for a Discord-centered voyage.

Uggh! Big talk about where our game tribe, SG (SteamGamers), should go. Spiritwind worried about losing talking caves, wants to use Discord. Thinks it might break tribe bonds. Others like Discord, say it's good for talking and sharing. Big arguments about who leads, where we go, and what other tribes think of us. Talk also about tracking game places, talking with each other, and big plan for building tribe. Split between those who love old talking caves and those who want Discord journey.

[Iota]

1 minute ago, FanService said:

Uggh! Big talk about where our game tribe, SG (SteamGamers), should go. Spiritwind worried about losing talking caves, wants to use Discord. Thinks it might break tribe bonds. Others like Discord, say it's good for talking and sharing. Big arguments about who leads, where we go, and what other tribes think of us. Talk also about tracking game places, talking with each other, and big plan for building tribe. Split between those who love old talking caves and those who want Discord journey.

Arrrgh! Me hearties, gather 'round for a grand parley 'bout the fate o' our game tribe, SG (SteamGamers). Spiritwind be fretting 'bout losin' the sacred talkin' caves, wantin' to set sail on the Discord seas. Be fearin' it might shatter our tribe bonds. Yet, there be others who fancy Discord, claimin' it be a fine vessel for chattin' and sharin'. A fierce debate brews on who be the rightful captain, which course to chart, and what them other tribes be thinkin' of us.

We be arguin' 'bout trackin' the game lands, conversin' with our brethren, and forgin' a mighty plan for expandin' our tribe. The crew be divided, with some holdin' fast to their love for the old talkin' caves, while others be yearnin' for the adventure of the Discord journey. Aye, it be a stormy sea of opinions and clashes as we set our sights on the horizon, unsure whether we'll find treasure or turmoil in this new era.