Forum Utilization / Reformatting

[Hawks]

34 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

Strictly regarding the forums:

 

It's time to let it go. I say either move the forums to a read-only archive or just completely shut it down. The threads feature of Discord more or less has become the new "forums" per-se. Yes, online forums still exist but their activity is slim pickings compared to even 5 years ago. Move to a full-Discord model. For example, the Lethal Company Modding Discord server has chat sections that are exclusively threads that essentially function like a forum, and I think that's the best model to have moving forward. It's modern, simple, and Discord is free/much more affordable for premium features annually compared to a website hosting service. Putting resources into making Discord bots to add features to the servers/making the server grow is a much more valuable time and resource dump than updating an online forum that barely gets clicks and won't contribute to real community growth (no shade to the work of the TAs over the years that have made this website their labor of love). 

 

Regarding the stuff @electricboogaloosaid:

 

Even if it is someone hiding behind a VPN, there are definitely good and valid criticisms here. The stagnation at the very top has heavily contributed to the downfall of this community. Caution has done an enormous amount of work during his tenure, but everyone has their time to let it go. I believe that time has very much passed long ago. Who should take over? I don't really know, honestly as long as it's someone active with an IQ above 100, I think they'd set the community in the right direction simply by being a fresh face in charge who engages with the community. 

 

Looking back on things, the internal shit-slinging has existed for so long within the staff ranks, and it ultimately comes down to the group that talks shit about other people and groups that are simply in higher positions end up on top. Every group of friends within staff have gone off into their own individual cliques and talked shit about other people and it just fosters resentment within the staff ranks and causes rank instability and slows  growth. I think at one point when CA was still a rank and I was in the higher-up staff, I watched/was part of a complete turn-over of the CA rank within 6-7 weeks. 

 

Hell, even now I can remember higher-up staff talking shit (whether in a meeting, over discord, pms, etc.) about 4 current AO+... and it wouldn't entirely shock me if shit is still talked in private behind each others backs.

 

Note: I am not innocent of this, like I said, we ALL did it. The higher I got in the ranks, the more shit that was talked. In the time, I didn't care and contributed to it, but looking back it's a really terrible look for a community to talk shit on fellow staff members behind their backs and sow resentment, often times with no real basis beyond just "fuck this dude because he's not in our little group". 

 

Regarding the higher-of-higher ups:

 

I'll keep this one short and simple. Caution has sent two messages in the SG discord in the last 3 months. An owner who interacts with the community they own that little should not be in charge. Plain and simple. 

 

Dominic, you're a busy college student with bigger shit to focus on than a dying community that has no real impact on your life. Get your degree and make professional moves for yourself.

 

Point being, the two with the most power in the community should not be in charge. These two will not put the community in the right direction, as they simply do not dedicate/have the time to dedicate to this community to foster growth or a healthy and welcoming environment. No shade, just stating how I see it. There's nothing wrong with not having the time, you're both busy, but understand nothing will change or improve until you're both no longer the top guys.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

 

+1

[Spiritwind]

Personally think it should just be left alone.  Having a landing page isn't going to do anything.  Removing the forums will just encourage old players to accept SG as dead and move on permanently.  If you want to move to full discord support, have a top announcement bar that states the forums are no longer supported by staff and admins, with a discord invite link.  That is my personal opinion, but having not been active in years, I know I have no say at all.  I just know that I personally would never bother with SG again if I saw the forums were removed or archived.  

 

 

 

While I did not take the time to read all of the posts above in full, I do have to agree with Phoenix.  If you feel that old staff have a need or desire to hide behind a VPN, maybe you should take that to heart, and maybe it's part of the reason that SG is near the brink of disappearance.  
 

PS: I messed up my 1234 post count for this.  

[kabLe]

55 minutes ago, Phoenix_ said:

Strictly regarding the forums:

 

It's time to let it go. I say either move the forums to a read-only archive or just completely shut it down. The threads feature of Discord more or less has become the new "forums" per-se. Yes, online forums still exist but their activity is slim pickings compared to even 5 years ago. Move to a full-Discord model. For example, the Lethal Company Modding Discord server has chat sections that are exclusively threads that essentially function like a forum, and I think that's the best model to have moving forward. It's modern, simple, and Discord is free/much more affordable for premium features annually compared to a website hosting service. Putting resources into making Discord bots to add features to the servers/making the server grow is a much more valuable time and resource dump than updating an online forum that barely gets clicks and won't contribute to real community growth (no shade to the work of the TAs over the years that have made this website their labor of love). 

 

Regarding the stuff @electricboogaloosaid:

 

Even if it is someone hiding behind a VPN, there are definitely good and valid criticisms here. The stagnation at the very top has heavily contributed to the downfall of this community. Caution has done an enormous amount of work during his tenure, but everyone has their time to let it go. I believe that time has very much passed long ago. Who should take over? I don't really know, honestly as long as it's someone active with an IQ above 100, I think they'd set the community in the right direction simply by being a fresh face in charge who engages with the community. 

 

Looking back on things, the internal shit-slinging has existed for so long within the staff ranks, and it ultimately comes down to the group that talks shit about other people and groups that are simply in higher positions end up on top. Every group of friends within staff have gone off into their own individual cliques and talked shit about other people and it just fosters resentment within the staff ranks and causes rank instability and slows  growth. I think at one point when CA was still a rank and I was in the higher-up staff, I watched/was part of a complete turn-over of the CA rank within 6-7 weeks. 

 

Hell, even now I can remember higher-up staff talking shit (whether in a meeting, over discord, pms, etc.) about 4 current AO+... and it wouldn't entirely shock me if shit is still talked in private behind each others backs.

 

Note: I am not innocent of this, like I said, we ALL did it. The higher I got in the ranks, the more shit that was talked. In the time, I didn't care and contributed to it, but looking back it's a really terrible look for a community to talk shit on fellow staff members behind their backs and sow resentment, often times with no real basis beyond just "fuck this dude because he's not in our little group". 

 

Regarding the higher-of-higher ups:

 

I'll keep this one short and simple. Caution has sent two messages in the SG discord in the last 3 months. An owner who interacts with the community they own that little should not be in charge. Plain and simple. 

 

Dominic, you're a busy college student with bigger shit to focus on than a dying community that has no real impact on your life. Get your degree and make professional moves for yourself.

 

Point being, the two with the most power in the community should not be in charge. These two will not put the community in the right direction, as they simply do not dedicate/have the time to dedicate to this community to foster growth or a healthy and welcoming environment. No shade, just stating how I see it. There's nothing wrong with not having the time, you're both busy, but understand nothing will change or improve until you're both no longer the top guys.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

 

+1, I also agree with SpiritWind. Dom you know 100% what electric said was completely factual. I don't even need to argue with you about it. Anyone who's been promoted to BD and does what everyone who gets promoted to BD does, knows he's right. Most of us took part in it as well so we aren't clean, but don't sit there and act like what electric said was just complete bullshit and he's a pussy for using a VPN. Your just doing yourself a disservice.

[Greggy G]

 

1 hour ago, Phoenix_ said:

Strictly regarding the forums:

 

It's time to let it go. I say either move the forums to a read-only archive or just completely shut it down. The threads feature of Discord more or less has become the new "forums" per-se. Yes, online forums still exist but their activity is slim pickings compared to even 5 years ago. Move to a full-Discord model. For example, the Lethal Company Modding Discord server has chat sections that are exclusively threads that essentially function like a forum, and I think that's the best model to have moving forward. It's modern, simple, and Discord is free/much more affordable for premium features annually compared to a website hosting service. Putting resources into making Discord bots to add features to the servers/making the server grow is a much more valuable time and resource dump than updating an online forum that barely gets clicks and won't contribute to real community growth (no shade to the work of the TAs over the years that have made this website their labor of love). 

 

Regarding the stuff @electricboogaloosaid:

 

Even if it is someone hiding behind a VPN, there are definitely good and valid criticisms here. The stagnation at the very top has heavily contributed to the downfall of this community. Caution has done an enormous amount of work during his tenure, but everyone has their time to let it go. I believe that time has very much passed long ago. Who should take over? I don't really know, honestly as long as it's someone active with an IQ above 100, I think they'd set the community in the right direction simply by being a fresh face in charge who engages with the community. 

 

Looking back on things, the internal shit-slinging has existed for so long within the staff ranks, and it ultimately comes down to the group that talks shit about other people and groups that are simply in higher positions end up on top. Every group of friends within staff have gone off into their own individual cliques and talked shit about other people and it just fosters resentment within the staff ranks and causes rank instability and slows  growth. I think at one point when CA was still a rank and I was in the higher-up staff, I watched/was part of a complete turn-over of the CA rank within 6-7 weeks. 

 

Hell, even now I can remember higher-up staff talking shit (whether in a meeting, over discord, pms, etc.) about 4 current AO+... and it wouldn't entirely shock me if shit is still talked in private behind each others backs.

 

Note: I am not innocent of this, like I said, we ALL did it. The higher I got in the ranks, the more shit that was talked. In the time, I didn't care and contributed to it, but looking back it's a really terrible look for a community to talk shit on fellow staff members behind their backs and sow resentment, often times with no real basis beyond just "fuck this dude because he's not in our little group". 

 

Regarding the higher-of-higher ups:

 

I'll keep this one short and simple. Caution has sent two messages in the SG discord in the last 3 months. An owner who interacts with the community they own that little should not be in charge. Plain and simple. 

 

Dominic, you're a busy college student with bigger shit to focus on than a dying community that has no real impact on your life. Get your degree and make professional moves for yourself.

 

Point being, the two with the most power in the community should not be in charge. These two will not put the community in the right direction, as they simply do not dedicate/have the time to dedicate to this community to foster growth or a healthy and welcoming environment. No shade, just stating how I see it. There's nothing wrong with not having the time, you're both busy, but understand nothing will change or improve until you're both no longer the top guys.

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

 

 

59 minutes ago, kabLe said:

+1, I also agree with SpiritWind. Dom you know 100% what electric said was completely factual. I don't even need to argue with you about it. Anyone who's been promoted to BD and does what everyone who gets promoted to BD does, knows he's right. Most of us took part in it as well so we aren't clean, but don't sit there and act like what electric said was just complete bullshit and he's a pussy for using a VPN. Your just doing yourself a disservice.

 

+1

[Dominic]

19 minutes ago, kabLe said:

+1, I also agree with SpiritWind. Dom you know 100% what electric said was completely factual. I don't even need to argue with you about it. Anyone who's been promoted to BD and does what everyone who gets promoted to BD does, knows he's right. Most of us took part in it as well so we aren't clean, but don't sit there and act like what electric said was just complete bullshit and he's a pussy for using a VPN. Your just doing yourself a disservice.

 

I have too much pride in not being a hypocrite to consciously be one, I'm more than willing to have that conversation - just not gonna respect it coming from an alt account as much as I would someone like yourself. I'm pretty sure you've read the post in the CA section where I legitimately called for Caution and Gator to both resign, which ended up happening not too long after. I'd say things went pretty well from there when Revenga and I ran things while being super active, definitely better than when the people at the top were inactive. This is why in recent months I've posted a few times (one time in that public BD chat I think) about being willing to resign if Caution called for it. I realize my mistake here was that Caution is also inactive currently, so I should've put that offer out to the Board.

 

I've considered it a couple times now, but I just don't think we're in the right spot for me to leave the guys in power directionless. If they themselves call for it, then I'd be more willing for sure. Unless someone has a proposed power structure that makes sense, anyway.

 

I refuse to compromise on someone logging on a VPN and shit talking my 'intelligence and emotional maturity' - nor will I somehow convince myself it has something to do with me that staff feel like they need to hide behind a VPN. I have been open and willing to talk about the hard topics for as long as I can remember. I can be a condescending person sometimes for sure but I'm not about to pawn off some asshole comment as some type of reason for self reflection. Not happening. Anyone who knows me even slightly well knows very well that I'm always an open ear for even the most blunt types of criticism, and I simply won't let anyone convince me otherwise. I've been that way for years now. So if anyone feels as that alt account feels, you can absolutely Discord DM me.

 

Just as you can talk to me as someone that was on the Board, I can talk to you as someone who was also retired at one point. I'm sure you understand it's easy enough to say all the 'things that need change' but not so easy to actually propose what change should happen. Especially because we are so not at the point where 'there's always someone that wants / is able to take your spot' is applicable anymore.

[Greggy G]

14 minutes ago, Dominic said:

 

I have too much pride in not being a hypocrite to consciously be one, I'm more than willing to have that conversation - just not gonna respect it coming from an alt account as much as I would someone like yourself. I'm pretty sure you've read the post in the CA section where I legitimately called for Caution and Gator to both resign, which ended up happening not too long after. I'd say things went pretty well from there when Revenga and I ran things while being super active, definitely better than when the people at the top were inactive. This is why in recent months I've posted a few times (one time in that public BD chat I think) about being willing to resign if Caution called for it. I realize my mistake here was that Caution is also inactive currently, so I should've put that offer out to the Board.

 

I've considered it a couple times now, but I just don't think we're in the right spot for me to leave the guys in power directionless. If they themselves call for it, then I'd be more willing for sure. Unless someone has a proposed power structure that makes sense, anyway.

 

I refuse to compromise on someone logging on a VPN and shit talking my 'intelligence and emotional maturity' - nor will I somehow convince myself it has something to do with me that staff feel like they need to hide behind a VPN. I have been open and willing to talk about the hard topics for as long as I can remember. I can be a condescending person sometimes for sure but I'm not about to pawn off some asshole comment as some type of reason for self reflection. Not happening. Anyone who knows me even slightly well knows very well that I'm always an open ear for even the most blunt types of criticism, and I simply won't let anyone convince me otherwise. I've been that way for years now. So if anyone feels as that alt account feels, you can absolutely Discord DM me.

 

Just as you can talk to me as someone that was on the Board, I can talk to you as someone who was also retired at one point. I'm sure you understand it's easy enough to say all the 'things that need change' but not so easy to actually propose what change should happen. Especially because we are so not at the point where 'there's always someone that wants / is able to take your spot' is applicable anymore.

 

nvm u right keep going

[Spiritwind]

Dominic, my personal opinion, and take this any way you want:

 

A major reason as to why SG currently has 0 players in the servers, is on the brink of extinction, and has lost 99% of its dedicated members is left to the simple fact that you are even in this community, let alone a vice president.  

Hear me out; SG has become nothing but a popularity contest.  Pure and simple.  What you did 3 years ago should have resulted in permanent removal from the community.  Prior to Caution taking office, there would not have been a single chance for you to even make an appeal after the sort of behavior you displayed.  All staff attention has gone to exactly that; staff attention.  Decisions are no longer made on the idea of what will actually help the gaming community, the past and present members, but instead is based on what will make you feel better or look more flashy.    

 

The only reason you were unbanned, is that the remaining members of the community were narcissistic buddies who still included you in their circle, minus a few good souls who only stick around and help because of the nostalgia of the good ol' times when SG actually meant something and had core values and leadership.  

 

You can take this however you want.  But, I can say that I've talked it over with multiple people who have been long term members, and they felt the same way.  

 

If you are taking offence to this, just ask yourself one question.  If I did what you did 3 years ago; started another gaming community, tried to sour the SG reputation by telling people we were stealing money, went on the servers and kept spamming ip links, created multiple fake accounts to continue to harass the community, stole SG developed plugins, convinced multiple admins to follow me; and then continued to try and create drama between the two communities.  Would you let me back in?  Do you really think you would ever have been let back in if you had not been buddies with some of the higher ups and active members still?  

 

I don't think your a bad person dominic.  I think at heart you mean well and you've grown since then, but I don't think you should ever have been included again.  You may have changed, but you are still the same person.  You may say you have an open discussion, but its just a front.  Show you are open to what the community is saying not by words, but by action.  

 

You say that you don't think you should leave higher staff directionless, but SG has been directionless for years.  Look at where it is now.  This is what it has become under your direction.

 

EDIT:
Last but not least, if that gaming community you had made had ever been a success, do you really think you'd have ever took a second look at SG again?  Nope, but it failed, just like SG is under the current leadership.

[Poke]

16 minutes ago, Spiritwind said:

Dominic, my personal opinion, and take this any way you want:

 

A major reason as to why SG currently has 0 players in the servers, is on the brink of extinction, and has lost 99% of its dedicated members is left to the simple fact that you are even in this community, let alone a vice president.  

Hear me out; SG has become nothing but a popularity contest.  Pure and simple.  What you did 3 years ago should have resulted in permanent removal from the community.  Prior to Caution taking office, there would not have been a single chance for you to even make an appeal after the sort of behavior you displayed.  All staff attention has gone to exactly that; staff attention.  Decisions are no longer made on the idea of what will actually help the gaming community, the past and present members, but instead is based on what will make you feel better or look more flashy.    

 

The only reason you were unbanned, is that the remaining members of the community were narcissistic buddies who still included you in their circle, minus a few good souls who only stick around and help because of the nostalgia of the good ol' times when SG actually meant something and had core values and leadership.  

 

You can take this however you want.  But, I can say that I've talked it over with multiple people who have been long term members, and they felt the same way.  

 

If you are taking offence to this, just ask yourself one question.  If I did what you did 3 years ago; started another gaming community, tried to sour the SG reputation by telling people we were stealing money, went on the servers and kept spamming ip links, created multiple fake accounts to continue to harass the community, stole SG developed plugins, convinced multiple admins to follow me; and then continued to try and create drama between the two communities.  Would you let me back in?  Do you really think you would ever have been let back in if you had not been buddies with some of the higher ups and active members still?  

 

I don't think your a bad person dominic.  I think at heart you mean well and you've grown since then, but I don't think you should ever have been included again.  You may have changed, but you are still the same person.  You may say you have an open discussion, but its just a front.  Show you are open to what the community is saying not by words, but by action.  

 

You say that you don't think you should leave higher staff directionless, but SG has been directionless for years.  Look at where it is now.  This is what it has become under your direction.

 

EDIT:
Last but not least, if that gaming community you had made had ever been a success, do you really think you'd have ever took a second look at SG again?  Nope, but it failed, just like SG is under the current leadership.

[Ejivis]

Seems to me this post got off topic and turned into a "who should be in charge" debate.  Sorry, I thought this was about the forums and the discord content.  

 

Either way, if you say the forums should go I simply cannot agree with that in the slightest.  Replacing the forums with a landing page to the discord is a really bad idea (as the reasons @Spiritwindsaid above).  Archiving the forums is also a bad idea unless you're completely giving up on them.  Again, by doing that you are also saying you are giving up on any influx of players from CS2 community servers anytime within the next year or two.  We've seen and heard many times that money is not an issue keeping things online, so with that being said, it makes absolutely zero sense to decommission the forums.  Please give one valid reason why this should be done.

 

The forums are a nostalgic place indeed, however, nostalgia won't save them.  The reason traffic is lacking is because we have more people leaving than joining.  People have lives and they will rotate their interests when it comes to communities.  New relationships, school, jobs, etc will cause this.  The focus should be on getting new members not bringing old members back.  Old members will come back on their own when their life is ready.  It's the current active members and leaders job to ensure they have a place to come back to. 

 

If we want new members to join then we have to actively go out and recruit them.  You will also need more than 2 permanent servers for them to play on.  Again, this should be fixed once Valve get their stuff together with CS2 and community modders make leaps with plugins.  We cannot do anything about that right now.  Every community is suffering.  The only alternative is to find new games to host dedicated servers for in the meantime.  

 

Again, the biggest reason the forums are in decline is because there arent people playing on community servers.  Who exactly is supposed to join the forums these days?  Who is supposed to come and happen upon this place as a new member on the internet? 

 

The discord has new members join often because they find the server via discovery randomly.  That and thinking we are a "Steam" group for Steam related questions and stuff.

I really dislike the idea of condensing the discord channels.  What does that achieve?  The issue isn't that we have "too many" channels.  The issue is that we have "too many unused" channels.  We need to simplify the discord by removing the bloat and unused channels and then diversify.  it is a 2 step approach.  There are many things missing from the discord that would help the community and drive organized discussion.  I don't want 1 or 2 text channels that clutter with a smorgasbord of random things.  We already do that with random.  As I said before, random should be split up to have many more organized topic discussions.  The politics and food channels are a good representation of this.  

 

 

[ThRza]

3 minutes ago, Ejivis said:

Seems to me this post got off topic and turned into a "who should be in charge" debate.  Sorry, I thought this was about the forums and the discord content.  

 

Either way, if you say the forums should go I simply cannot agree with that in the slightest.  Replacing the forums with a landing page to the discord is a really bad idea (as the reasons @Spiritwindsaid above).  Archiving the forums is also a bad idea unless you're completely giving up on them.  Again, by doing that you are also saying you are giving up on any influx of players from CS2 community servers anytime within the next year or two.  We've seen and heard many times that money is not an issue keeping things online, so with that being said, it makes absolutely zero sense to decommission the forums.  Please give one valid reason why this should be done.

 

The forums are a nostalgic place indeed, however, nostalgia won't save them.  The reason traffic is lacking is because we have more people leaving than joining.  People have lives and they will rotate their interests when it comes to communities.  New relationships, school, jobs, etc will cause this.  The focus should be on getting new members not bringing old members back.  Old members will come back on their own when their life is ready.  It's the current active members and leaders job to ensure they have a place to come back to. 

 

If we want new members to join then we have to actively go out and recruit them.  You will also need more than 2 permanent servers for them to play on.  Again, this should be fixed once Valve get their stuff together with CS2 and community modders make leaps with plugins.  We cannot do anything about that right now.  Every community is suffering.  The only alternative is to find new games to host dedicated servers for in the meantime.  

 

Again, the biggest reason the forums are in decline is because there arent people playing on community servers.  Who exactly is supposed to join the forums these days?  Who is supposed to come and happen upon this place as a new member on the internet? 

 

The discord has new members join often because they find the server via discovery randomly.  That and thinking we are a "Steam" group for Steam related questions and stuff.

I really dislike the idea of condensing the discord channels.  What does that achieve?  The issue isn't that we have "too many" channels.  The issue is that we have "too many unused" channels.  We need simplify the discord by removing the bloat and unused channels and then diversify.  it is a 2 step approach.  There are many thing missing from the discord that would help the community and drive organized discussion.  I don't want 1 or 2 text channels that clutter with a smorgasbord of random things.  We already do that with random.  As I said before, random should be split up to have many more organized topic discussions.  The politics and food channels are a good representation of this.