Civil Debate: Fanboyism and Multi-Console Releases.

[LegalSmash]

This thread is not a PS3 4TW, XBOXXOR thread, rather its for debating a serious issue in gaming: multiplatform releases and cross platform play. Please, keep it civil or GTFO.

 

When I was gifted a nintendo in early 1988, I remember the most visible gaming icon at the time was Mario... I recognized him from my Atari "Mario Bros" game, and a new game with a new setting was a grand thing. My cousins had this system and game as well, and we had a hell of a time getting through all those levels. Other systems began to emerge and I had a few relatives that picked one or the other up, particularly the sega master system and the turbografx 16. Now, the sega was purchased by a 21 year old relative of mine who had just been discharged from the navy, and I watched him play a few times, not really finding the whole machine very interesting, or for that matter attractive. For my cousins and I, it was all about mario and link, and excite bike. My cousin with the Turbo-16 spent a fortune getting that machine, and to be honest, when we all saw it, we thought it was one of the biggest wastes of plastic we had ever played on... the games were pedestrian at best, the capability of the machine was great, but far ahead of its time, and much more expensive than our middle class parents were going to drop on a video game machine (It kept us quiet, and they were willing to pay nintendo for that one).

 

Nintendo and Sega had a vicious console war in the late 80s to mid 90s which resulted in the creation of some of the best and worst gaming devices, games, and characters. Some of these characters have maintained specifically on nintendo. I still believe that nintendo will win, and continue to win, every console war, video game format battle based off their 25+ years of experience and dynamite sales/promotion team. Sega is dead now, and the two contenders fighting for the position of video game maid of honor appears to be the Xbox 360 and Sony's PS3.

 

These two companies are not primarily "gaming" companies, they are a high end electronics manufacturer and a software development firm respectively. They forayed into video games for the purpose of reaping profit and gaining a share in a market dominated by Nintendo almost exclusively. I believe that they had to know that they would be up against what can only be termed fairly as a juggernaut, and that their move was mostly spurned by the technical inferiority of the 64 and the gamecube compared to the PS, the Ps2, and the Xbox respectively in their eras. nintendo relied on cartridges as the primary media changed to disc, Nintendo eschewed several gaming titles to remain "family friendly" (remember mortal kombat for SNES anyone), and nintendo decisively seems to go after the traditional video game market that they've continually held: ages 4-15 and adults that casually game. To this end, they created the Wii, a motion sensing, visually low tech machine with its own style and inventive design. The Wii to date, has outsold Sony and MS by a vicious margin. I know people that still fight over the machine reserve certificates at different stores where the console is sold.

 

Nintendo has essentially ceded to Sony and MS the "above 15 serious gamer" genre, and gave it a good slap on the back for good riddance. I believe this partly has to do with the fact that the 15+ serious gamer market is saturated with titles all designed to achieve the same thing: Kill things and go fast in a graphically intense manner. There is little difference to me between the GTA titles except for story line, with the exception of a selected few games that I actively wanted to buy, my PS3 library is rather thin compared to my PC Game library, which consists of 2 spindles of disks and my steam account. I am convinced that nintendo sees the fact that the 15 and up market is still dominated and will continue to be dominated by PC gaming. The console giants fighting for second place seem not to really get this, nor do their fans, who degenerate into rabid fanboyism over the exclusive release of one title over another, and the loss of an icon of one brand... its almost like the WWF/WCW wars of the late 90s. I think its mostly caused by the fact that most fans cannot afford more than one machine. Those of us who are wealthy or white enough to have all three, or two of them, or even (as myself) one console and the PC can form a seperate opinion however.

 

The bottom line is, I love my PS3, but in a pinch I'd pick my PC.

 

Primarily, I got the PS3 because my PS2 died, I have small hands, and do not like the large X box controllers. I have many PS2 titles, which are backwards compatible with my machine, and I saw that HDDVD lost the format war, and wanted to get a BR player. In addition to this, many of my cousins have a PS3, which we keep in touch with online and game together. To this end, I've really come to like the PS3 because it allows me for the first time in many years to have weekly and sometime daily conversations with relatives that I do not often get to see. I really could care less that metal gear solid 4 is exclusive... because I own it, and beat it, and it exclusively sucks my right ass cheek. The story is too long and it suffers from "ZOGM Nucrear horrorcorst in nippon" syndrome. I would have preferred the game appear on the other consoles as well personally, just so there would be enough of a backlash about the 30 + minute cut scenes of homo-erotic dialogue to maybe get Kojima to get off his fucking high horse and just make a good game.

 

Do I think Sony is a superior machine to the Xbox? As for reliability, to ME, yes. I am a finicky person by nature, and (ask red) the concept to me that a machine I paid out the ass for may die and RROD me is simply disturbing. I think the PS3 has more crap inside it than the Xbox, but as detriment to the machine no one knows how to use it yet.

 

Think back to the release of god of war, one of the later PS2 games, and tell me that compared to MGS2 Sons of Liberty, God of War doesnt blow the game away in sheer brilliance. It takes a while to learn to use all the crap in the machine and to program to maximize the machine's architecture. On a side, my PC is a Quad core. I know that games are not there yet, but games finally went "dual reccomended" (See DOW2 reqs... and I am nearly certain now SC2). What the hell is the point of buying nearly outdated machinery (dual core) which is hard to upgrade... I'd rather replace my stock 256MB vid card later, than have to get a new Mobo and processor any day of the week. This is kind of the way I feel about Xbox.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the machine is a fine piece of machinery, and by no means is it less capable at the current moment, but give it a few years, and any system will show its age, especially if it is not future ready.

 

As for sale points, Xbox has killed sony, and I will openly admit that it is SCEA's fault entirely.

 

Fact: Sony could have released on time, or within a month to three months of Xbox's release. They held on for a whole year, including the holiday season. This is essentially suicide for a console. Allowing Xbox to have exclusive dominion means a LOT of people are going to get that machine, and blow their wad on the X instead of the black box.

 

Fact: When sony DID release, their price point was nearly 1/3 higher than Xbox AND their flagship game (MGS4 would not release for nearly 2 years) every other game that was released in tandem with the PS, with the exception of Warhawk, was a console port of an already released Xbox title.

 

Fact: Sony's price point, coupled with the cost of manufacturing, while making a technologically superior (in theory and future readiness) machine, made one that they could not sell far below that price point without incurring heavy losses.

 

Fact: Much like with me, many gamers that DID get a ps3 would NOT have gotten one BUT for the backwards compatibility, something the 40 Gig does NOT have.

 

Fact: By taking 100 fucking years to release, SCEA had lapse many of its exclusivity agreements with some of the best gaming companies that signed the agreements in 2000-2002 prior to the first Xbox. Good going Sony, you completely garage sale'd your best ammunition to hook gamers.

 

In short, Sony neutered itself. Its not a matter of Xbox being superior, or microsoft being a better company, its simply that SCEA completely dropped the ball and was getting its pants OFF when Xbox had already gangbanged the public.

 

RE: dual platform releases. FFXIII (for those that are interested) is going to be a multiplatform release. Let me start by saying I am HAPPY about this. FF is a good game series, and imho more sales means more money for development of a better next game. I have seen a couple SCEA fanboys going rabid about this issue. I feel however, that the multiplatform release can only be a good thing, as the game will receive even more scrutiny and criticism.

 

 

My dream to be honest, would be cross platform play. What do you guys think of this concept? I think its what truly keeps PC as the dominant Genre... all you need is a comp that can run the game and a connection and you are good. Consoles, being proprietary, do not have this option, at least not now.

 

This is simply MY story. Being the grand forum that we are, I want to know what you think. How do you feel about this? What are your ideas on this issue? Please, no fanboy flaming.

[LegalSmash]

WAY too long for my attention span. I tried reading a bit of the first paragraph and then read the facts & end.

 

I don't really have much opinions, to be honest. When I got a 360 I didn't actually want it that much. It was more the fact that almost everyone I know at school has one. Since then I've found love for it especially through multiplayer.

 

I think the console market is simply too overhyped. I wouldn't ditch a PC for a console. And I doubt I ever would.

 

PCs > Consoles.

 

Agreed.

 

The rest of the read is actually pretty good if you have the attention span.

[Itch]

I love the idea of cross platform play.. Not sure how feasible it would be.. but I know Sony won't work with the other vendors so it's not likely to happen.

 

I watched a History Channel special on video games.. and LOL'd when they talked about the fact that prior to the release of the PS1.. Nintendo had asked Sony to develop a CD Drive for their next gen console. Sony started the work.. and then after "contract disputes" decided to keep the system for themselves and later release the PlayStation. The rest is history.

 

I just purchased my first console in years.. (by just purchase I mean I bought it Saturday night) I had a very very hard time deciding which way to go. I have 2 young children and all reviews said.. that for Kids buy a Wii. But the Gamer in me said.. I wanted a PS3. After all the pro's and con's were weighed out I ended up buying an Xbox.

 

Sony seems to not care what their fans think.. They essentially neutered the current versions of the PS3. As of Aug 07 any new PS3's no longer have any backwards compatibility with PS2/1 games. They have 2 instead of 4 usb ports, and they have dropped the Flash port. Not to mention the price tag. There are pro's to the PS3.. but by dropping the backwards compatibility they have made it a system unsuitable for small kids. I have been disappointed by Sony products in the past, and yet again.. they made the decision for me. My wife was opposed to me spending that kind of money and when I looked for titles that the kids could get into I was surprised at how few there were.

 

Don't get me wrong I play the PS3 about once a week at my brother-in-laws house. And I quite enjoy WarHawk and Restitance 1 & 2. But was not willing to pay $600 for a used PS3 to be able to be backwards compatible and have the features I was looking for.

[Italian Jew]

I view consoles and PCs equally; it just depends on what mood I am in or how/if I am playing with others. If I want to sit down with some friends and play a game with them, then obviously I am going to go for the console of my choosing over the PC. If I wanted to play a FPS on single player, I would go with the PC if it could handle the game the way it was meant to be played. I have a laptop that is by no means powerful in a gaming sense, but it can play most games. The drawback is that the graphics need to be lowered on the newer, more graphic intensive games. Instead of doing that, I would buy the game on a console because I wouldn't have to go through that.

 

Both PC and consoles have an online element that can connect me to friends easily, so that is not an issue between the two. Both have very good games that are unique to their system so I can just buy what I want. At the very least, I enjoy games more on the PC and 360 than on the PS3. The only games I would get on the PS3 would be exclusives that I might actually want to play like MGS4. The reasoning behind this is that I have owned my 360 for a long time and I am used to it. I also use a PC for gaming in the same way, familiarity. My dad got a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player and my sister uses it to play Little Big Planet. Since that's the only game we have, I don't play it at all (plus I am back at school, so I can't use it anyway now).

 

PCs have the option of being better than consoles, but for situations like mine where I don't really want/need to upgrade my PC, a console is just as good or better. Either way, I still get to blow shit up with friends.

[Omar]

But the Gamer in me said.. I wanted a PS3. After all the pro's and con's were weighed out I ended up buying an Xbox.

 

.

 

Welcome to the darkside, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

[Jaffa]

I started off with a megadrive (which i loved and still do, and still play it when it works ), moved onto a N64, which hooked me with great games like goldeneye, ocarina, perfect dark, smash brothers, and was then heavily influential in me buyin the Gamecube, with my brother buying a ps2.

 

Out of the two consoles, i found the gamecube much more enjoyable than the ps2, as whilst its game catalogue was small (and never really grew), it had several games that i enjoyed playing a lot in single player (metroid, zelda, mario, resident evil remake, resident evil 4), and it had smash brothers melee, which me and my friends played constantly. Although i enjoyed the console a lot, i think Nintendo screwed themselves over using the small, low capacity discs, which made it hard for 3rd party game manufactorers to prouce games for the Gamecube, and to port them over from ps3/xbox.

 

Currently, slightly due to money constraints, and mainly due to having a PC, i don't own a next-gen console, nor intend to get one. I don't see the point in spending a lot of money for a graphics-intensive console (my pc runs with high specs) and the games coming out/released for the consoles are either available on pc, will be, or don't compare with the games i have/am buying.

 

The Nintendo Wii i dislike. The new controller, which once seemed a brilliant idea for Nintendo, now simply gives companies an excuse to produce poor games, mainly aimed at kids (much like many of the games for the origional playstation), and Nintendo have succeeded in alienating many of its core fans with this policy of aiming at kids and non-regular gamers. Doing his has brought them big short-term success (as it did for sony with the playstation), but in the long term, they will have to somehow convince its new custmers to continue to buy their games/consoles, most likely dragging them back into a hardware/novelty war with microsoft and sony.

[LegalSmash]

I started off with a megadrive (which i loved and still do, and still play it when it works ), moved onto a N64, which hooked me with great games like goldeneye, ocarina, perfect dark, smash brothers, and was then heavily influential in me buyin the Gamecube, with my brother buying a ps2.

 

Out of the two consoles, i found the gamecube much more enjoyable than the ps2, as whilst its game catalogue was small (and never really grew), it had several games that i enjoyed playing a lot in single player (metroid, zelda, mario, resident evil remake, resident evil 4), and it had smash brothers melee, which me and my friends played constantly. Although i enjoyed the console a lot, i think Nintendo screwed themselves over using the small, low capacity discs, which made it hard for 3rd party game manufactorers to prouce games for the Gamecube, and to port them over from ps3/xbox.

 

Currently, slightly due to money constraints, and mainly due to having a PC, i don't own a next-gen console, nor intend to get one. I don't see the point in spending a lot of money for a graphics-intensive console (my pc runs with high specs) and the games coming out/released for the consoles are either available on pc, will be, or don't compare with the games i have/am buying.

 

The Nintendo Wii i dislike. The new controller, which once seemed a brilliant idea for Nintendo, now simply gives companies an excuse to produce poor games, mainly aimed at kids (much like many of the games for the origional playstation), and Nintendo have succeeded in alienating many of its core fans with this policy of aiming at kids and non-regular gamers. Doing his has brought them big short-term success (as it did for sony with the playstation), but in the long term, they will have to somehow convince its new custmers to continue to buy their games/consoles, most likely dragging them back into a hardware/novelty war with microsoft and sony.

 

Which they've convincingly won each time by going after their original target market.

[Wrathek]

while the topic interests me, srry guys, whole thread is tl;dr

[phatman76]

I grew up with both nintendo and sony in the house, but at the same time I was an avid PC gamer. I like the way nintendo treats its customers, it is loyal, and it is innovative at the same time; but I grew out of it I think. Sony is too expensive and legal, you're right, it is chasing after a phantom market share along with XBOX, these days any good release will go onto a PC port. Consoles are essentially hamstringed in another sense also, they cannot compete with a keyboard and mouse for RTS games.

 

But the real reasons why consoles will never win? They aren't an essential. Everybody who is anybody has a computer, nobody who can't afford it buys a console. PC game designers have a captive audience. No bad release is going to cause people to go to ebay and sell their computer. Even if somebody go and buys a console, they will probably still buy PC games at some point.

 

Microsoft and Sony still win anyways though, both of their products push brand-loyalty. Any XBOX user who gets a computer will most likely get a PC to play games, any guy who buys a PS3 will probably get a new TV to display the nose-bleedingly good graphics (maybe a sony).

 

 

and btw legal, fuck you MGS4 is a great game :]

[Jaffa]

Which they've convincingly won each time by going after their original target market.

 

Gamecube was definatly a failure compared to xbox/ps2.

 

Ninendo Wii has seen hardly any great titles compared to n64/snes/nes, instead its full of games catering for small children. Whilst you can argue that its what nintendo have done all along, the SNES and NEs had many great games that could be played by children up to adults alike.