LR or death

[BlackEagle]

You imply that im stupid by by telling me to do obvious things like read a book or chat. Ive been playing this game on and off for years, and Ive always had a book or ds handy to pass the time. This post has nothing to do with how I should be using my spectate time. In your past post, you said you felt sorry for me at least twice then gave out the same suggestions that previous posters gave. Not sure why you would have to get personal and state that you felt bad for me or whatever you said, that has nothing to do with the post, if you disagree with me fine, state that, but stop trying to make this a personal issue between me and you.

 

I don't see how this is personal. It is a human characteristic that you don't seem to have. Which is pretty much proven by you not being able to wait a minute. The reason I feel sorry is because if you can't wait one minute you can't wait for anything then. Patience is a virtue. So this isn't a personal attack on you at all I say it to anyone that isn't patient so don't think I am trying to attack you in anyway. You are taking what I am saying and thinking that I am implying things when i'm not. I'm simply giving you suggestions to do to make the time pass and that is it. But it doesn't really matter because this rule won't change.

 

Im not ignoring anyone with an opinion here, telling me to read a book is not an opinion, why you guys have taken on such a shitty tone over this issue escapes me. I came here plain and simple to state an opinion and see what everyone thinks about it. I kinda thought thats what the forum was for. I as well was playing on the server, pretty much from the start, and I just want to get back to days where we would not hold up the whole round for one person, thats all.

 

If anyone is taking a shitty tone it is you. I rarely get into arguments but you are taking our thoughts and opinions as to why this shouldn't be added and basically taking them as personal attacks against you. From what I have seen it's like anyone that doesn't think this rule should be added, which is everyone so far besides yourself, is attacking you and has a shitty tone. We even had members try to help you by giving you suggestions and you simply turned them down and even called us out for thinking that delaying is fun when that isn't the case but instead don't feel that this is an issue. You stated your opinion, we stated ours and you think we are attacking you when in reality we are just explaining why this isn't going to work. That's all that I did.

 

Like I keep stating, and everyone keeps ignoring is that as far as i can tell, this issue stems from the rank system. So why dont we talk about why this problem came to be, instead of giving me suggestions on how to spend my time, and panning me for my opinions? And no clearly, I dont play ttt, this has nothing to do with ttt, can we stop talking about ttt and just try to stay on subject? I already said its not the biggest problem in the world, if it wont change thats fine, but i did not realize you guys were going to poo poo all over me for stating my opinion.

 

I stated why this wasn't going to implemented in my first post here and XeNo gave another example of why it won't be added. I suggest checking those out.

 

Once again, not one person (aside from goku, thats actually borderline input on the stated problem) has offered any input as to why things are the way they are, or why its a great idea to keep it that way. Most of your post have been more along the lines of "your idea is bad and you should feel bad" rather then offering any actual input. If you disagree fine, then state WHY you think its a great idea to let 1 person drag out the round. Enough with the social commentary.

 

As stated above I stated why because we don't force CTs to accept LRs. It is also a deathgame as XeNo said and we don't force those either. That was my original input and you overlooked it because it didn't align with your views.

 

It's not that we think it's great to drag out 60 seconds but because it would cause so many more issues.

 

Here is my last input and I am done.

 

This is why it would be an issue:

1. We don't force deathgames and an LR is a deathgame.

2. It is only 60 seconds. It's not a long time and I never hear anyone complaining about it.

3. There is going to be an issue with a T requesting an LR and the CT not wanting to perform that LR or participate in any LRs.

4. If you are just going to kill the last T then you run into issues of CTs camping or who gets to kill the last T.

5. If you want to use a chair or some other forced death through the map not all maps have autokill zones and I myself may not want a T to travel all that distance with potential guns lying around and what not.

6. If you want to fix the delaying, like I mentioned earlier, teach the newer players what LRs are because that is probably 95% of the delaying is new players not knowing what an LR is.

 

I have stated all this already throughout the thread as my input but I put it all here so you can see that we have given our opinions and we didn't just make this a personal attack against you because we disagree with your opinion.

 

And with that I believe I have said all that I need to say so just gonna end it there.

[awesomebillfromdawsonvile]

black eagle you have stated many times now that you feel sorry for me, and even went so far as to call me ignorant, that's personal. not read the rest of your statement but yea, that about sums it up, no one else took the time to call me ignorant or that they feel bad for me. And as for being patient, Im an infinite well of patience, I think the fact that im still here trying to get my original thought across should be proof of that. Im glad you have said your last on this, because to be honest you have been the least helpful person to post so far. Next time I ask for ways to occupy my time in spectate, please feel free to weigh in. But in this post you have basically done nothing to address the actual problem Ive stated. You have simply said that its not going to change, and you feel sorry for my ignorant self.

 

4. If you are just going to kill the last T then you run into issues of CTs camping or who gets to kill the last T.

This is the only valid reason thats been stated, I ignored all the others because they are just not valid(and more or less revolve around the same issue " we dont force death games"). If a ct does not want to give whatever lr, he should just shoot the t, Ive stated this already, it goes with the whole, not dragging out the round thing. There should not be some long 1-2 min production to entertain the last t, who more then likely did nothing during the round. And as stated, I could care less if some ct gains a few points or some t losses a few. Cts are already not allowed to camp round after round, and I pretty sure no one is going to rise to the top ranks by camping all round in hopes of getting one free kill at the end.

 

If the idea is to stop one person from holding up the round, I dont see any reason why we cant force an lr, other then your stated, "o thats forcing a death game" once again stating the obvious like im too dumb to understand semantics. Point being death game or no, dont hold up the round for one person. Just as the cts gain a free point by killing the last t, the last t gains a point by not loosing one, if he refuses an lr to ensure that he is not killed that round. Are people doing this? I dont know, but its as much a valid point as rank whore cts getting freekills.

 

I don't see how this is personal. It is a human characteristic that you don't seem to have.

yea, that right there is the definition of a personal attack, saying that I lack some basic human characteristic is about as personal as it gets.

 

When the server was young, I and many other players would force the last t to take an lr, if he refused, we killed him. I did this in full view of admins, many who practiced this themselves. I never got punished or had to deal with any crap for it. Eventually I drifted away from playing pb to work on maps for various sg servers, When I came back almost everything had changed, alot of it for the better, but I still feel this is an issue that just got swept under the rug in favor of dealing with other more pressing issues on the server. Now that the rule list is basically sorted, it just seemed like a good idea to bring this back up. Most of the stated reasons for why this wont work revolve around the fear of contradicting the motd. Just like the rules change for the last ct, there should also be some consideration for the last t, especially if he just feels like dragging out the round.

[Neme]

Like I keep stating, and everyone keeps ignoring is that as far as i can tell, this issue stems from the rank system.

 

There was a suggestion earlier this year (or was it late last year?) about removing the rank system from PB. As far as I know it was rejected.

 

I fail to see how that's implied here, Im stating the fact that the 4 people who posted before you are not the only people in the server. Yet most are acting as if im the only person who has a problem with this. Hell, maybe I am, but how am I supposed to find out with out asking the community?

 

Judging from the resistance you've received so far in this thread, I'd say the people that find delaying the round to be a problem the minority. Granted only a handful of people have replied in this thread and I'm sure that at least 70% of the PB playerbase doesn't even have a forum account, so you're likely to never get an accurate sample size. Still, I play PB quite frequently and I think it's safe to assume that most people might complain about delaying but no one really cares enough to try and get such a rule pushed (myself included).

[awesomebillfromdawsonvile]

neme, thanks for at least admitting that other people do complain about this, even if as stated they dont care enough to try to change it. I was really getting tired of folks pretending like it was a complete non issue. I just wanted to discuss this issue, and see how people felt about it.

[BoM]

You're basically Being a hypocrit here, saying that we're all doing it wrong. I'm sorry i didn't know you were the debate boss around here. Seriously a multitude of people have told you this is essentially a non issue......including caution saying no.

 

All I see is people posting things you don't like, and you taking it personally and trying to make their points null based on that.

 

If you haven't noticed there are bigger things going on in SG besides a rule that has never existed in PB. If you want to discuss a rule, being a whiny ass is not the way to go about it.

 

This thread has turned into walls of text between you and beagle, with you dismissing everyone else's comments.

 

/thread pls

 

Sent from my motherfuckin IPADMINI

[awesomebillfromdawsonvile]

bom... ive not called anyone out here other then the guy telling me he feels sorry for me, called me ignorant, then topped it of with saying im lacking a basic human trait. You all have the right to your opinions and the entire reason for making this post is so we could discuss them. I said im ignoring any more suggestions to read a book, not every opinion that does not jive with mine. Also caution did not say NO, he said its never been a rule as far as he knows. Its true the rule was never on the motd, sorry if I led anyone to believe that it was, that was never my intention.

 

If my tone seems a little stark to you, it might have something to do with the fact that the entire first page of this topic is devoid of any real discussion on the issue. out of the 5 or 6 posts there, they all either say, "we dont force death games" or "read a book". Thats not a discussion, its hardly even giving an opinion, in fact noone really mentioned if dragging out the round bothered them or not. (shoep does come pretty close to saying it doesn't bug him, and of course its clear that hawk does not care.) Bom, I suggest you go back and read these post again, 90% of them lack opinions, and are mostly just people giving me suggestions on how to deal with my personal problems with pb. Some, but not many do contain actual input on the problem, but as stated they all revolve around "no forced death games" or point whoring cts.

 

I would appreciate some actual input from you rather then just name calling and backing up hawks ideas.

[Caution]

I'm not saying it's not an..."issue" (and I use the term very, very loosely...because I don't see it as anything more than a minor annoyance), I'm saying that I don't think it's worth creating a new rule that just conflicts / contradicts current rules that have been established on the server for awhile. Several rules would have to be rewritten, otherwise it just wouldn't make sense. There are so many "what-if's" that would now need to get answered, etc. Goku posted a perfect way to get around T's being annoying and not doing anything.

 

 

LR's was a thing other servers did because they had plugins for it while ours did not, so we didn't do LR's until the current population of PB made it the thing every CT offers nowadays.

 

1000x this. LR's hardly ever existed back then, because most servers just ran the LR plugin. Our servers NEVER had the plugin because we did not believe in forcing death games, which is what an LR essentially is. It's a LAST request. That's why I don't believe it was ever a 'rule' on the server, official or not. I'm not saying Grim didn't say it was cool, but as fun as Grim was, he wasn't the guy to go to regarding admin rules...as he often made up things on his own lol.

[awesomebillfromdawsonvile]

Yep pretty much everything you say is spot on caution. Grim and most of the other admins just made stuff up on the fly. They pretty much had to at the time, seeing as how the motd was in its early stages, and there was so much gray area to exploit. I can understand that its bothersome to have to change rules around to accommodate this(lr or death), but I still thought the discussion was worth having.

 

Sure kids might argue over who kills the last t, or someone might come up during the degale toss and shoot the t, but it wont happen every time. In the past it was a non issue, sure the deagle toss thing happened sometimes, but it was pretty rare. It might happen more often now thanks to the rank system, but maybe thats something we should be discussing as well. I dont want to get too far off topic, but back when the rank was first implemented years ago, it did change the way many of the reg cts played. Way more awping, leaving the ts in one spot the whole round, and a lot less close contact with ts, this was only made worse by the jihad mod. But yea, thats probably better left for a different thread.

 

As much as I liked gokus suggestion(its what i used to do with the last t if he refused an lr once the rules changed), I cant be the ct in control of the last t every round. Im more speaking on behalf of dead ts who are stuck watching the one guy who did not rush, as he drags out the round for everyone. They are completely powerless, and they just have to sit there and wait for a round draw.

 

Not sure what others did, but Ive been giving out lrs since I started cting, well before our motd was polished like its current state. Once again, I cant name dates or anything, but it was a long long time ago. lr has never seemed like a death game to me, just a (kinda) necessary evil to help speed the game along. I dont think changing this should require fiddling with any of the rules. Just one small addition, the last t must accept an lr or face immediate execution.

[BoM]

The opinion is pretty clear: read a book. What I mean by that is people like having that time in between rounds, and I tend to agree.

 

No one is trying to make personal attacks towards you, you are simply taking what is being said the wrong way. Many people, myself included, play CSS, PB, any part of SG with the intention of being able to pick it up and put it down. I tend to use those rounds dead to do all sorts of things, but primarily just texting, steam messages, ect.

 

You said something about how you wouldn't bother trying to chat while in PB.....I don't get why not, it has a built in function for it. You told me to reread the posts, as if I would find something I didn't see the half a dozen times I scanned the posts before. I see opinions, I see goku, beagle, and others giving valid scenarios that 100% disagree with this rule.

 

There are opinions here, and they do say "no you are wrong" essentially, however they are mostly backed up by valid scenarios and prior experiences. The par of you thinking everyone is calling you stupid, no.....just stubborn.

 

It is gonna come off as stupid if you keep acting so defensively, and again as I've said multiple times now.....extremely dismissive of the facts people have put against this rule.

[Goku]

I think I was the only one that even brought up TTT unless I overlooked it somewhere else, but the only reason I mentioned it was because often times you will have to sit out 9 minutes because you get killed 5 seconds into the round.

 

Look, it's nothing personal, but you are sorta creating an issue out of a minor inconvenience. From what I've seen when I'm on there, you don't often have the chance for one T to delay the round for one minute since the CTs usually suck and all get killed 2-3 minutes in. I'd say that maybe 3/10 rounds maybe 4/10 have the chance for Ts to LR, and of those maybe 4/10 times the Ts just delay instead of LR'ing.

 

 

As suggested before, maybe adding something for newer players to read so they understand what LR is.

 

And as Caution just said, there really is no point creating a new rule that would contradict others.

 

And I know how frustrated you are awesomebill. I tried to get a new rule made about TTT delaying and got mostly negative feedback. I tried to point out, and the same applies here, that not everyone that plays on PB (or TTT) in my case, is a member of the forums. However in your situation, there really isn't much of an issue.

 

 

Solution:

No new rule.

CTs learn how to pretty much force the Ts to LR as I said earlier by telling them to freeze and if they move without LR'ing warning shot and kill if they do it again, thus legally forcing an LR or death to avoid delaying.

Put something in the !rules or maybe a new plugin with !info.

???

Profit.