Should the old system be brought back? 34 members have voted

[Goku]

@SpikedRocker could I just bring this suggestion to attention?

 

Also not sure if it exists but maybe have a separate section in the admins section for them to discuss admin applications more privately?

 

If it already exists than just say stfu goku, but I think having a public admin application alongside a private admin only thread for that application could maybe be a good compromise. The admin only section would solve any problems with admins not wanting to worry about upsetting the applicant, but the public application would still allow non admins to weigh in their thoughts as, the vast majority of the servers are populated by non-admins. Plus if an admin does have something they do want to say publicly they can.

 

My problem I always had with the old system was that it was a bit harder to gauge exactly what needed to be worked on to improve one's own attitude and overall behavior.

[SpikedRocker]

Problem I have with having a more private section is that its now 2 places I'd have to look for information on the same topic. 1 its a bit of a pain in the ass, 2 it could get confusing going between the 2.

 

One suggestion that I've been brought that I kind of like is that we can have said person post their application, but then all the reply's would be not visible by anyone who wasn't a moderator. This could reduce bandwagoning and people would feel a bit more comfortable posting their problems about said person. However, I do like having people having civil conversations about the applicant. Sometimes someone brings up a good point that some others forget and it can change their perspective. I can recall several times someone brings up a past problem that no one had thought of again to which the problem may not be resolved or fixed on the applicants part. That can be key information for anyone who has weighed in or is about to weigh in on it.

 

I know I really do not want to make major changes to the system right now. We'd confuse a ton of people who do participate in the system. I think one of the best things we can all agree on that more people should be putting their input on these things. More opinions the better, it can be information overload for me but you know I feel better knowing more people have said something than the times where its a dozen or more. Honestly, if you are worried you may offend the applicant or his/her supporters with your opinions feel free to PM it to me and I can use it in my evaluation anonymously and if your point needs to be said to the applicant I won't say "so and so said you did this and I think you need to work on it".

[Wawa]

No matter what the system in place is, it all comes down to the BDs making a decision to either approve/reapply/reject an admin application based on their own opinions/observations, the opinions/observations of the community, and everything between those lines--those are the cut-and-dry means to reach those ends. There isn't really much else that can be done to gather thorough, honest opinions other than through following the guidelines that have been set and maintained by Revenga and the other BDs; there isn't a magical honesty detector that picks up on opinions that are purposely dishonest or just plain bullshit and there's nothing that can be done to prevent them.

 

It all boils down to how the BDs want to make their decisions on admin applications. If their approach is to gather as many opinions from the community as possible about an applicant while encouraging them to be thorough and honest, then that's completely up to them. If their plan is to keep increasing the pool of SAs regardless of how many there are currently, then that's completely up to them. Using an old system, older system, semi-new system, completely new system, etc. really doesn't matter as long as the ends (the decision of the BDs to approve or not) justify the core means (why should we approve or not).

[Maxwelldon]

Problem I have with having a more private section is that its now 2 places I'd have to look for information on the same topic. 1 its a bit of a pain in the ass, 2 it could get confusing going between the 2.

 

One suggestion that I've been brought that I kind of like is that we can have said person post their application, but then all the reply's would be not visible by anyone who wasn't a moderator. This could reduce bandwagoning and people would feel a bit more comfortable posting their problems about said person. However, I do like having people having civil conversations about the applicant. Sometimes someone brings up a good point that some others forget and it can change their perspective. I can recall several times someone brings up a past problem that no one had thought of again to which the problem may not be resolved or fixed on the applicants part. That can be key information for anyone who has weighed in or is about to weigh in on it.

 

I know I really do not want to make major changes to the system right now. We'd confuse a ton of people who do participate in the system. I think one of the best things we can all agree on that more people should be putting their input on these things. More opinions the better, it can be information overload for me but you know I feel better knowing more people have said something than the times where its a dozen or more. Honestly, if you are worried you may offend the applicant or his/her supporters with your opinions feel free to PM it to me and I can use it in my evaluation anonymously and if your point needs to be said to the applicant I won't say "so and so said you did this and I think you need to work on it".

 

I'm pretty much on the same lines with you @SpikedRocker and it is good to have the feedback on the applicants.

Little consideration and discretion while giving public feedback to admin applications is advised though (at least how I think) because we're here to keep up good spirit, have fun and enjoy the games With the community, not to start fights or be insulting others, even though they might have been complete douches to others.

 

Just a thought but would it be possible to add an option for admin application replies so people could discreetly give a piece of their mind and only BD's would see such comments, instead of completely hiding the applications from others than higher ups? This would enable everyone to give their honest opinions discreetly and have replies in one place to avoid confusion like if there were two places for such. Additionally the "Discreet" comments could have something in them to indicate that no one else but BD's or such could see them.

[Turtlefiish]

There were much more critical comments, actual discussions about the person, and people strongly advocating for or against.

 

So yeah...

 

You and I must be remembering it differently, I just remember the same old popularity contest, but like I said, with the added personal grudges.

 

Can't we resolve this by keeping it public but disabling usernames/avatars for people below AO?

[SpikedRocker]

Just a thought but would it be possible to add an option for admin application replies so people could discreetly give a piece of their mind and only BD's would see such comments, instead of completely hiding the applications from others than higher ups? This would enable everyone to give their honest opinions discreetly and have replies in one place to avoid confusion like if there were two places for such. Additionally the "Discreet" comments could have something in them to indicate that no one else but BD's or such could see them.

 

Thats where the PM would work.

 

Can't we resolve this by keeping it public but disabling usernames/avatars for people below AO?

 

That is simply not possible.

[Neptune]

No matter what the system in place is, it all comes down to the BDs making a decision to either approve/reapply/reject an admin application based on their own opinions/observations, the opinions/observations of the community, and everything between those lines--those are the cut-and-dry means to reach those ends. There isn't really much else that can be done to gather thorough, honest opinions other than through following the guidelines that have been set and maintained by Revenga and the other BDs; there isn't a magical honesty detector that picks up on opinions that are purposely dishonest or just plain bullshit and there's nothing that can be done to prevent them.

 

It all boils down to how the BDs want to make their decisions on admin applications. If their approach is to gather as many opinions from the community as possible about an applicant while encouraging them to be thorough and honest, then that's completely up to them. If their plan is to keep increasing the pool of SAs regardless of how many there are currently, then that's completely up to them. Using an old system, older system, semi-new system, completely new system, etc. really doesn't matter as long as the ends (the decision of the BDs to approve or not) justify the core means (why should we approve or not).

 

Hence the "suggestion"

[Wawa]

Hence the "suggestion"

 

Ok, so let me make a point here:

 

From Capp'n:

To conclude this big ass thread, I'd just like to say going back to the old system would be better because you see the formation of honest opinions, which is what we need, but currently are lacking because of this new public system. The lack of honesty gets people admin who don't deserve it or someone who after reapplying over and over again, and they might not still deserve to get it.

 

From Me:

There isn't really much else that can be done to gather thorough, honest opinions other than through following the guidelines that have been set and maintained by Revenga and the other BDs; there isn't a magical honesty detector that picks up on opinions that are purposely dishonest or just plain bullshit and there's nothing that can be done to prevent them.

 

From Spiked:

I've kinda kept the process I've been using mainly due to I don't want people to find a way to abuse my system. My system involves reading between the lines. I generally get a good idea of how people are from the posts but some people that I know really well and work with, they kinda weigh a bit more cause I trust their judgement. Is this a fair system? Maybe not, but I don't see how many yes or no votes one applicant gets. I like to see the kind of support they get and whom they get it from.

 

Overall, it does not matter who can or cannot give their opinion and it does not matter who can or cannot see them. Some people are going to be flat-out honest in their feedback and some people are going to be blatantly dishonest for various reasons, this will never change regardless of the system we're using. The BDs are the ones reading in between the lines throughout the entire process and will make their decisions based on that approach, having a different system is not going to change that. In other words, the people who are getting admin aren't being approved because of the system in place, so don't blame the system.

[Bad Karma]

The only issue I have with this is the fact that the applicant wont really be able to defend themselves lets say if someone were to be dishonest on their app. How would anyone know if it is correct without hearing out the applicant, which would also lead to leaking of what people write about.

[BlackWhite]

Don't we used to have a system where the public and SA gives opinion about the person who submit application then move up to CA+ to give opinion?