OP Armor

[ExRev]

Like I said, I'll consider a vote for it.

 

I get that, I was trying to consolidate my thoughts into a more coherent post, rather than bit by bit.

[Pyro]

>I don't prefer it, personal opinions are shit

>I totally don't prefer 2008 Jail Break!!1!!!!111!

>I have no bias so therefore I'm right xd

 

Stop attempting to sound smart with your shitty contradiction. Just because something is from 2008, doesn't mean it's good/correct.

It has nothing to do with 2008, or any year for that matter. I really don't know how to say it any other way, except that its just always been like that. Only did we recently deiced to try it out. Im just arguing the side of not working out and wanting to revert it.

 

 

Totally ignoring his whole post just because he admits he hasn't read the entire thread? Lol yeah ok, like it even takes much reading to agree or disagree on if you feel helmets/armor are necessary for CTs on PB.

When in a discussion or a debate valid points can be made at anytime and sway people from one side to the other or vise versa. If someone isn't going to read everything that's been said i find their opinion empty if you will. It's like making a decision without looking at all the evidence.

 

You are talking as if this thread has been out for a week, seriously do you possibly think I have an answer right away for this everything? It takes more than 10 secs to actually form an idea on what to do/say about on a topic, but no, let's throw shit at me for not responding ASAP.

I wasn't trying to be witty or rude here to you or wawa. I was just trying to get back on topic and hear the opinions of the people that actually make the final call.

Anyways, I personally don't think there's a need to remove helms, but we can do a vote if that's how you guys want it to go. I don't think we'll ever remove armor at this point.

 

It would be nice to have a poll that goes for 2-3 weeks while we advertise it on the PB server. Any PB regular that that doesn't have a forum account would have a higher chance of making one, plus we would more of the player base to vote.

[Dimitry]

I really don't see the problem with it.

 

The helmet Kevlar combo allows those not fortunate enough to have a microphone to be given a safety line for when they need to stop and type. So those without microphones isn't that severely at disadvantage from a microphone talking player. (Cause lets be honest, when there isnt a 5 year old banshee destroying my already tinnitus ridden ears, CT side does end up being undermanned sometimes)

 

It requires a T to use his brain and possible coordinate with teammates before he pulls a firearm out and engage in a firefight. instead of one tapping that poor kid who was typing orders or that talking CT who didn't want to unload a entire 5.56mm/7.62mm into a crowd of somalian prisoneers.

Majority of maps allow you acess to high penetration weapons, like deagles and scouts to counter kevlars. The cell pistols just allows you some early firepower if the chance appears.

 

It puts more pressure on the whole assymmetrical gamemode. You are suppose to be at disadvantage and make due with what you have and how the situation unfolds. Once you learn how to pick the right timing and place, a kevlar helmet means very little unless you are digging a basement for the silver 1.

It requires you to coordinate with teammates most of time. Which can be pretty hard when your teammates most of times can be compared to lobotomized patients with down syndrome and cerebral palsy. (God bless Prison break)

 

Majority of Prison break players are in such a special silver tier, valve decided to make the specials tournament to give them a chance. Don't blame the game cause you decided to go full detroit side grip mofo on that CT watching you with a Kalashnikov, just praying you do something stupid.

 

It gives a little bit advantage forward a skilled CT player i can agree. But that just means you require a arabian spring of fellow rebellers to assist you. But if that isn't enough to kill that CT, then you sure as fuck didn't have a higher chance with him leaving the Kevlar set at home and going to work in his undies.

 

:adog::adog::adog:

[Mad Dogg]

Perhaps instead of removing the kevlar + armor from the cts we give the prisoners Armor to even things up. I often find it ridiculously easy to kill unarmored opponents with a simple spray and pray. I'm sure every one of us have seen the CT team being stacked in the beginning of every map. Perhaps this will balance teams a little. Any thoughts?

[Metal]

Perhaps instead of removing the kevlar + helmet from the cts we give the prisoners Armor to even things up. I often find it ridiculously easy to kill unarmored opponents with a simple spray and pray. I'm sure every one of us have seen the CT team being stacked in the beginning of every map. Perhaps this will balance teams a little. Any thoughts?

 

I would actually like to see what happens this way.

I know people will say it will make it harder to kill them but half the time, all they have are pistols or knifes.

[Luke]

I will make a longer post if necessary later on.

 

It should stay for both head and body.

[Stunningjam]

I'd like to weigh in here. Currently I haven't read any of the other posts but I feel that should the armour (Kevlar OR helmet) be removed, then there will be a huge change in the amount of wins you get as a terrorist. Already the Ts won around 70%-80% of the rounds, so making the USP, P250, P2000 etc a one shot headshot will make the game mode incredibly imbalanced. It will go from 70% to 90% won rate.

 

For example, VIP in the mix: there's a cell that spawns a USP. A lot of people currently like to take it out of the cell and to q more convenient location to use it. If helmets are removed, you can easily one tap a guy who takes a single step out of armoury with a simple headshot. That is ridiculously easy to kill a CT. I vote we keep both helmets and Kevlar as it would make an already sides game mode into something like Prison Escape (ZE).

 

So please Nuclear, don't even think about changing it. The vote would be heavily sided towards "no" anyway so it would be a waste of time to create it.

[Luke]

I originally wasn't going to but I decided to properly write about this one as it really could be another game breaking change that is being suggested. Whilst I respect that some of this idea could make sense, I'd like to state my point and perhaps even show some people issues or benefits that they may not of previously seen.

 

Firstly I will talk about the removal of Kevlar and the helmet. This one specifically isn't really very easy to argue a point towards the removal of it in all honesty.. it seems a little far fetched but if it isn't already clear to people I'll just show why anyway. I really hope that at a first look most of you would understand how game changing this would actually be. From experience in JB (unfortunately I don't have access to actual stats) as @Stunningjam previously said the t's probably have around a 70% win rate if you don't include times when the CT : T ration is quite irrational. To suggest a change where T's would be even more favoured seems quite absurd at a first glance. (perhaps just to me)

 

The rules that are currents set are efficient for the most part when concerning the freedom that t's can have without them being straight up killed for slightly disobeying. To change the Kevlar on the ct side would make the current system of being the second shot one that could not work. Due to the aimpunch the would put the ct's at a huge disadvantage and unable to punish disobeying t's. When concerning a pistol in the t's hand this becomes quite ridiculous as ct';s are unable to KOS a T with a secondary weapon without asking them to drop it first. This means that when a T disobey's this and opens fire with his secondary he will be able to get the first shot. This may not seem like an issue relating to Kevlar as the T would be getting a first shot anyway, however to those of you that play fairly competitively on cs go (I'm not talking JB, perhaps MM or in a team playing pugs etc.) you would understand the difference of being the second shot with and without Kevlar. The aimpunch makes an insane difference that would destroy the ct's current game.

 

Another point that does perhaps not apply to everyone with be the realism that we want on SG. In a gaming environment I would personally say that I'd much prefer anything that enhanced the gaming experience and gameplay over anything that made it more 'realistic'. Although, if you consider a real life prison where the prisoners somehow have access to knives or sharp objects for the CT's to not have some kind of protective clothing just seems inappropriate. I don't consider the realism an important aspect in these servers, however if any of the higher ups have a want for realism then this point my apply to you.

 

The biggest issue that I can see with Kevlar (among the many smaller ones that would be too much effort to comment on) would be knifing from the T's. As everyone understands the T's start with a knife and generally most T's will attempt to bend the orders that they are given as much as they can (which is of course fine) . With things like freedays T's will get as close to the CT's as the can to make their job difficult and/or uncomfortable. If the Kevlar was removed a T would have the ability to left click once and right click once which is the amount it takes to kill someone with no Kevlar but full health. With the CT's current inability to do anything vs a player with a knife without a warning shot (unless they are doing something that can be KOS) to be dead within a second just become of the Kevlar removal is just crazy. I think the way that the servers are right now with the warning shots is good, but removing Kevlar will crumble many of the rules that we already enforce.

 

So if Kevlar won't be removed the options are then to only remove helmet or to keep it the same. I respect that there is slightly more of an argument with removing the helmet in comparison to the Kevlar and the helmet, however I do not think this should happen either. With the main access for the T's to rebel with being the USP-S, P200 and Glock on many - but not all - maps the USP-S and P2000 will become a one shot kill to the head and the Glock will become a one shot from a shorter range. Seeing as I stated earlier that CT's can't actually generally kill T's with pistols straight away as they tell them to drop them, for the CT to be dead before they could even do anything would be ridiculous. Having a few T's have access to the ability to just straight up kill anyone they want from a lower populated CT defense with just one click and some good aim is just going against the whole gameplay aspect of the skill of rebelling.

 

This would also cause CT's to play much more defensively, perhaps camping behind walls and on catwalks all the time. It would slow down the current gameplay that we have and make delaying become much more apparent. However this is only with the smarter or 'more experienced' CT's; other CT's would simply just lose round after round bring the current T win rate to a ridiculous high.

 

As for the point made in the original post to do with doing over 100 damage but the CT staying alive, I can understand the frustration. Perhaps the servers registry isn't perfect, I experience issues with it frequently - as for whether that's me being in Europe or because of the plugins I will not know - but the server is 128 tick and the best that it will be. This CT may very well of taken damage from you earlier in the round and went to medic before you then shot him again, that is the most likely cause. However if you are certain this wasn't the case then it's simply a glitch, but you point doesn't have any logic towards your actual thread. Kevlar or no Kevlar would make no difference to whether or not over 100 damage counted or if the server was able to pick this up. I'm not necessarily saying your situation didn't occur, it just has nothing truly relevant to the removal of Kevlar.

 

I posted this as I feel like doing something like this would just make me stop playing altogether as it destroy's many fundamentals in the game that I honestly play for.

 

TL;DR: This removal could break the game or at minimum worsen gameplay, please, do not even consider it.

[Ayjin]

I actually wouldn't mind if T's had armor. A deagle can warning shot for 74.

[ExRev]

I'm not going to try and quote you while I'm on my phone, but as previously stated by Sean, there was a recent nerfing to the pistols, so I don't think they're still the one shot headshot kill people keep saying they are.

 

But you also brought up a point I didn't think of, which is the knifing. Having the extra armor from the helmet only makes it harder for Ts that only have access to their knives. Everybody that's stated the helmets are to protect CTs from the cell with a USP in it act like someone's in that cell every round, which isn't always the case. And for all your points about having to warning shot for a secondary, that can come down to CTs needing to give better orders. That's why some CTs have people face their cells, so they can do a check. Constantly using the helmet as an argument for the one, maybe two Ts that had a pistol in their cell or a tele to get to one (which a lot of our vet CTs check that shit as they're giving orders) again comes down to it seems like we give a greater handicap for CT incompetence.