Repeatedly getting killed on purpose

[Zaraki]

I gave you my personal opinion on baiting which is that if an unarmed CT goes near T's, I don't think it should be called "baiting". It isn't forcing the T's to kill him. T's can choose not to knife him and I don't see why the CT gets punished for what a T decides to do.

 

I have never heard of CT's this kind of "baiting" being a problem until the last year or two, in old PB we just told T's if they don't want to get KOS'd or killed immediately, don't knife the unarmed CT. If the CT has guns, it's a different issue and can be considered working against your team (CT) if you are making it easy for T's to get access to guns.

 

I don't agree.

 

The whole reason people should go CT is to take care of the T's in that way that they follow given orders and that the CT's are safe themselves. If he really wants to surf without playing his role as guard, he should have gone T.

Nothing is more disruptive as a CT not playing his part, and if a CT is stuck inbetween other T's on purpose (even if he's unarmed) the T's should have the right to kill him there and then without beeing KOS.

There is no real life scenario where a guard in a prison will go out to the courtyard unarmed with other prisoners and play along with them. If they shank him with a shiv, his colleagues will probably think he deserved it. Because there is this obvious unwritten rule that says "DON'T TRUST PRISONERS"

 

If I see a CT doing this, he will most likely get a slay for baiting or disruptive gameplay.

[Goku]

Just to clarify, while @XeNo and @Caution are saying they think that it isn't really baiting, our rules as of this post say other wise.

 

1. Baiting is doing something that a CT would never do if he is actually trying to stay alive, and therefore is either intentionally taunting or just being plain dumb.

 

Examples of this include:

 

Standing on a prisoner's head.

Putting your back to a group of prisoners.

Running through a condensed group of prisoners.

Sitting in a doorway near a group of prisoners without a purpose.

 

 

 

@XeNo and @Caution , I have to politely disagree. It should be considered baiting. The official definition of baiting is deliberately annoying or taunting someone. While yes, a T chooses to knife the CT, it doesn't change the fact that the CT enticed him to do it by placing himself in a vulnerable situation. Don't get me wrong, I could not care less if a CT tosses his guns and goes to play soccer with the Ts from time to time. But if the CT is just running in and allowing himself to be killed repeatedly, then it becomes a problem. CTs should be punished for putting themselves in situations that directly contradict the point of the game. The way I have always described baiting to a people is that CTs are not allowed to do it, but that doesn't mean Ts are allowed to knife them.

 

But yeah, this wasn't really an issue back in CSS. Then again neither was Panther steps (#BlameGoku) or whatever other bullshit problems people complain about. Just gotta adapt I guess.

[Caution]

I don't personally think 'running through a group of prisoners' is the same as using one of the map features like surf. Obviously sort of depends on a case-by-case basis, but for this specific scenario, I don't think it's baiting, imo. But what Xeno and I are saying isn't 'law', it's just our opinion. That would be left to Wawa or Nuclear.

[XeNo]

I don't agree.

 

The whole reason people should go CT is to take care of the T's in that way that they follow given orders and that the CT's are safe themselves. If he really wants to surf without playing his role as guard, he should have gone T.

Nothing is more disruptive as a CT not playing his part, and if a CT is stuck inbetween other T's on purpose (even if he's unarmed) the T's should have the right to kill him there and then without beeing KOS.

I agree that it's disruptive, and that the player should be put to T if an Admin is on. However, if none are, I don't feel they should be banned after the fact for something so incredibly minor as one CT dying. Another T could go CT to balance out the difference, as well.

 

However, I don't agree T's should have the right to kill a CT and not be KOS. How does that make sense? They knifed a guard, but no other guards can do anything about it? That makes literally no sense.

There is no real life scenario where a guard in a prison will go out to the courtyard unarmed with other prisoners and play along with them. If they shank him with a shiv, his colleagues will probably think he deserved it. Because there is this obvious unwritten rule that says "DON'T TRUST PRISONERS"

 

If I see a CT doing this, he will most likely get a slay for baiting or disruptive gameplay.

Sorry but your logic here doesn't make any sense either. If it was a real life situation and an inmate shanks a guard who is unarmed, you SERIOUSLY believe the other guards will do nothing about it and say "He deserved it"?? Even if they might THINK that, they would never allow it. That opens the gates to the inmates believing the guards are not in charge and will have zero retaliation for killing a guard. It would literally NEVER go unpunished. No matter the situation.

 

 

Edit: @Goku that's right, it's just our opinion. The rules do have that stated, though I feel the main issue of this situation comes when a CT is armed and does that, giving T's free guns. An unarmed one just doesn't feel right to me, but Caution and I will leave final decision up to @Wawa and @Nuclear Onion.

[Wawa]

Didn't we talk about loop holes to the rules in the JB Q&A meeting? xd

 

Anyways, the inception of the baiting rule was based around the concept of CT's indirectly gunplanting by getting intentionally killed by prisoners and therefore giving them weapons. Hence why this rule is lumped in with the gunplanting rule on the server.

 

In this case, an unarmed CT is joining a crowd of prisoners and basically asking to get killed, so is it a form of baiting? Well, yes and no.

 

As Goku already pointed out, one of the defining characteristics of baiting is doing something that a CT would never do if he is actually trying to stay alive. Obviously, a CT playing surf with a group of prisoners violates this. However, since the CT is unarmed, he is not giving the prisoners an advantage to overtake the other CT's by giving them guns, and this is why it can be argued that he wasn't baiting.

 

BUT, by doing this, the CT is still not following the role play of Jailbreak by essentially compromising his role as a guard to join the prisoner activities; he's better off just typing kill in console to reach the same end result. So as an admin, I would take action by warning the CT that he can be switched to T if he keeps repeating the same actions and not helping his team achieve their goals. It's rather silly to go through admin protocol to punish (and possibly ban) him since he's unarmed and not having much of an impact on the actual gameplay. Also, if a prisoner kills a baiting CT regardless if they're baiting, they are still KOS.

 

In conclusion, this is a minor form of baiting that should be handled differently from regular baiting: baiting with guns =/= baiting unarmed, baiting with guns is disruptive to JB gameplay where baiting unarmed doesn't follow JB role play (and the effect on JB gameplay is marginal). Again, admins should warn the unarmed baiter to stop, otherwise they can be switched to T since he is basically playing like one.

 

I hope this clears up any confusion!

[Nuclear Onion]

I'll make a statement adding to what Wawa said here tomorrow when I'm not tired asf, pls standby individuals xd

[Goku]

However, since the CT is unarmed, he is not giving the prisoners an advantage to overtake the other CT's by giving them guns, and this is why it can be argued that he wasn't baiting.

 

Just to player Lawyer Goku again, the flipside to that is we try to stick as close to 1:2 ratio as possible. If there's say 8 CTs and 15 Ts, a CT getting himself killed even while unarmed is now making it 7-15 which is one less man to help. CTs have the advantage of armor and guns, Ts have the number advantage. Often times the gun advantage is voided easily by a few rebels. The CT allowing himself to die is giving the Ts another man advantage.

 

But as you said it really is a pretty minor issue of baiting. As I originally said, IMO, if its just the occasional CT dropping his guns and playing soccer like we've done for years, that's fine. But if he is just letting himself die every round then yeah, he needs to be switched to T.

[Luke]

Also, if a prisoner kills a baiting CT regardless if they're baiting, they are still KOS.

 

I'm completely fine with this and can enforce this, however I needed to question it as this is not what I've seen enforced. Every time a CT baits a T and a T kills him the entire server of regulars start screaming 'HE WAS BAITING DONT KILL HIM' and any regular CT and also many other players then carry on with the round as though nothing happened. I've never seen a situation where a T kills a baiting CT and another CT kills him without an uproar of free kill and 'you can't kill a T that was baited'.

 

I just want clarification on this. For example if I'm a T just knifing and stationary and a CT just walks backwards into my knife and dies, am I then KOS? I'm fine with this being correct and what I'll enforce. Just from previous experience this is not what is enforced and known throughout the regulars either.

[Elemental]

 

Imo, whether or not the CT was carrying guns and running into a T-zone, still counts as baiting.

If he had guns with him, it'd be baiting and gunplanting.

Without guns, it'd just be baiting.

 

But that's just my 2 cents

[michellec]

I'm completely fine with this and can enforce this, however I needed to question it as this is not what I've seen enforced. Every time a CT baits a T and a T kills him the entire server of regulars start screaming 'HE WAS BAITING DONT KILL HIM' and any regular CT and also many other players then carry on with the round as though nothing happened. I've never seen a situation where a T kills a baiting CT and another CT kills him without an uproar of free kill and 'you can't kill a T that was baited'.

 

I just want clarification on this. For example if I'm a T just knifing and stationary and a CT just walks backwards into my knife and dies, am I then KOS? I'm fine with this being correct and what I'll enforce. Just from previous experience this is not what is enforced and known throughout the regulars either.

 

I know a lot of players who like knifing while doing obstacles on a climb server, or knifing while bunny hopping, or of course, knifing while surfing. How is it the T's fault, and why should we die if we accidentally knife the CT? If he wanted to surf, he could have sent them to another place, or asked nicely to have a freeday in surf as a T. He knew he was going to die by a bunch of T's while surfing and they'd end up getting killed, whether or not it was intentional. I just don't think it should be allowed.