Add this map to the server? 11 members have voted

[Nuclear Onion]

I think the concept of the map is unique and can work, but I do think it needs a couple of changes if you want it to be better. Mind you, these are opinions from someone who runs a JB server different from yours so take them with a grain of salt.

 

-Map is HUGE when it really doesn't need to be. The rooms can literally fit a whole two teams of players from a ZE server. I have no clue how big your communities server is in terms of server cap, but that isn't really needed for us. I know we have the map Dojo, but at the same time that map also has a lot more to do than what this does. It can still workout, but it's still a bit much for me, maybe others will think differently when I place it on the server one day, who knows.

 

-The theme is interesting, but I think you could've mixed up the colors a bit more. Pink and orange aren't the best mix imo, maybe that's referencing the Undertale game (which I've yet to play), but perhaps going with a couple of strange colors isn't really the best idea.

 

-Preventing CTs from opening cells is stupid to me, I really don't get why this is a thing when you usually want CTs to not delay when making orders. Perhaps it's to set up, but to me if you made the map smaller in terms of scale this wouldn't be as big of a problem.

 

-Another small thing, but not anything dire is the map .bsp file name is "jb_undertale_b1_workshop" for the future, you can leave the workshop part out of it. Not needed, nor is it a problem but looks a bit ugly on the file name in the map rotation.

 

That's what I gained out of my 15 mins exploring this map, I'll be sure to look into it in more detail once I get the time.

@thorgot

[thorgot]

I think the concept of the map is unique and can work, but I do think it needs a couple of changes if you want it to be better. Mind you, these are opinions from someone who runs a JB server different from yours so take them with a grain of salt.

Thanks you, I appreciate hearing from a different point of view.

 

-Map is HUGE when it really doesn't need to be. The rooms can literally fit a whole two teams of players from a ZE server. I have no clue how big your communities server is in terms of server cap, but that isn't really needed for us. I know we have the map Dojo, but at the same time that map also has a lot more to do than what this does. It can still workout, but it's still a bit much for me, maybe others will think differently when I place it on the server one day, who knows.

You'd be surprised at how fast you can get across the map, it's much smaller than it seems. Dojo is 13500 units at its longest width, and Undertale is only 7000. What I think you've hit upon is that the rooms feel empty, and there I hear you because others have mentioned that. I will probably decrease the size of cell block in the next version because it's mostly wasted space, but there's no other vast open areas (except climb which is intentionally cavelike and basketball which needs large distances to make the grenade throws difficult) to reduce. Instead I'll be adding more props and decorations to other areas so they feel less empty.

 

Also you may be surprised to see how much I crammed into the map when you explore the map further. Dojo has 16 map games, Undertale already has 12 (with more on the way). And that's not counting the different difficulty settings of strafe jump and surf and the 4 different courses selectable for backwards race.

 

-The theme is interesting, but I think you could've mixed up the colors a bit more. Pink and orange aren't the best mix imo, maybe that's referencing the Undertale game (which I've yet to play), but perhaps going with a couple of strange colors isn't really the best idea.

If you look up screenshots of the game you'll see that the textures are all based on it. It looks a bit weird at first, but you'll get used to it.

 

-Preventing CTs from opening cells is stupid to me, I really don't get why this is a thing when you usually want CTs to not delay when making orders. Perhaps it's to set up, but to me if you made the map smaller in terms of scale this wouldn't be as big of a problem.

I'll adjust the amount of time. It takes 15-20 seconds to finish a cell game. Currently the cell button is unlocked 17 seconds after armory is first opened or 45 seconds into the round, whichever comes first. However, this difference is because some CTs are pre-equipped on our server so they just rush out of armory. In practice, on our server the cells are always available around 20 seconds after the round starts. Without a plugin like this I realize it might take CTs a good 15-20 seconds to equip and press the armory door button, and then they would have to wait another 17 seconds. Instead, I'll just make the button unlock ~20 seconds after the round starts, giving T's one good attempt at their cell game. I'm not eliminating this completely though, I've noticed that everybody who has played the map as a T enjoys the cell games almost as much as the rest of the map.

 

-Another small thing, but not anything dire is the map .bsp file name is "jb_undertale_b1_workshop" for the future, you can leave the workshop part out of it. Not needed, nor is it a problem but looks a bit ugly on the file name in the map rotation.

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I released b1 and then was adding it to the workshop when I realized that would modify the map (as it automatically packs in some files). This forced me to rename it or there would be two versions of the map with the same name out there. The next version will just be called jb_undertale_b2.

 

That's what I gained out of my 15 mins exploring this map, I'll be sure to look into it in more detail once I get the time.

Thanks for all the feedback, I really do appreciate it.

 

tl;dr I'll be decreasing the size of the cell block, adjusting the time on the cell button unlock, and fixing the ugly filename for the next version.

[Wawa]

Thanks you, I appreciate hearing from a different point of view.

 

 

You'd be surprised at how fast you can get across the map, it's much smaller than it seems. Dojo is 13500 units at its longest width, and Undertale is only 7000. What I think you've hit upon is that the rooms feel empty, and there I hear you because others have mentioned that. I will probably decrease the size of cell block in the next version because it's mostly wasted space, but there's no other vast open areas (except climb which is intentionally cavelike and basketball which needs large distances to make the grenade throws difficult) to reduce. Instead I'll be adding more props and decorations to other areas so they feel less empty.

 

Also you may be surprised to see how much I crammed into the map when you explore the map further. Dojo has 16 map games, Undertale already has 12 (with more on the way). And that's not counting the different difficulty settings of strafe jump and surf and the 4 different courses selectable for backwards race.

 

 

If you look up screenshots of the game you'll see that the textures are all based on it. It looks a bit weird at first, but you'll get used to it.

 

 

I'll adjust the amount of time. It takes 15-20 seconds to finish a cell game. Currently the cell button is unlocked 17 seconds after armory is first opened or 45 seconds into the round, whichever comes first. However, this difference is because some CTs are pre-equipped on our server so they just rush out of armory. In practice, on our server the cells are always available around 20 seconds after the round starts. Without a plugin like this I realize it might take CTs a good 15-20 seconds to equip and press the armory door button, and then they would have to wait another 17 seconds. Instead, I'll just make the button unlock ~20 seconds after the round starts, giving T's one good attempt at their cell game. I'm not eliminating this completely though, I've noticed that everybody who has played the map as a T enjoys the cell games almost as much as the rest of the map.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I released b1 and then was adding it to the workshop when I realized that would modify the map (as it automatically packs in some files). This forced me to rename it or there would be two versions of the map with the same name out there. The next version will just be called jb_undertale_b2.

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback, I really do appreciate it.

 

tl;dr I'll be decreasing the size of the cell block, adjusting the time on the cell button unlock, and fixing the ugly filename for the next version.

 

I'm always impressed to see a mapper take critical feedback to improve his/her map. Good luck with your work and thank you for your time and commitment!

[thorgot]

Updated version jb_undertale_b2 released to address all of your concerns!

 

Additions

• Added Dodge Course, a new name for "Black and Yellow".
  
• Added 9 Colors. Includes 4 brand new random events: Corner, Ladder, 2 Jump, and Lasers. (Original game by audiOtrash on mg_SimonSays)
  
• Added a minor secret in climb.
  
• Added a minor secret in surf.
  
• Added a few more decorations around the map.
  

 

Fixes/Tweaks

• Decreased width of cell block to remove wasted space.
  
• Adjust cell door button unlocking. It is no longer based on when armory is first open, but is instead the same 20 seconds every round.
  
• Improved consistency of cell vent teleports.
  
• Made decathlon long jump two pixels shorter.
  
• Fixed crouch jumping in bhop cell teleporting you up to the next level.
  
• Fixed dualies button in armory giving you a deagle.
  
• Fixed getting stuck in armory vent doors.
  
• Fixed/tweaked some secrets.
  

[GhostTitanium]

We should put this on the server for admins+ to test with the server to see if it will work well for us. I don't see a reason not to.

[Souce Boss]

I just wanted to personally thank you, @thorgot for creating such an amazing map. I went ahead and tested this map with an almost full server. I asked a couple questions and these were the results:

 

 

-This was one issue the players had. A little less than half the server thought the map was too big.

 

 

-By far this was the biggest thing your map needs improvement on. From the 30 mins that the server played your map, there was a feeling of lack of guns on the map, other than armory. Also, from our play through, the only way into armory was via the big catwalk that stretches across the map. There is a door on the catwalk that you need a gun, in order to break the wood that is barricading the door from the other side. I think if there was some more guns that the Ts had access too, it would feel more of a jailbreak map, rather than a big map full of mini games.

 

HOWEVER, on the bright side,

 

 

-Your map was a success on the server. The server loves the map. As a JB reg, i'd like to add some of my input towards the map:

 

-Armory door stays up too long, this allows for some quick Ts to get into armory if CTs aren't paying attention

-As stated above, perhaps add some more rebelious secrets to make the map feel more like a jailbreak map, rather than a minigame map

-Remove the buyzone in armory so that pressing the buttons to obtain weapons from the wall of armory is easier

-For surf, a lot of people were getting stuck in the loser, uh, tube thing(when you fall into the lava), making the prisoners stuck in there, and if dmg was on, rather than getting hurt with 10 dmg, they may die cause they were stuck in the dmg thing.

 

If you improve on these, I feel the map will become even better. Thanks for all the work that you have been doing!

[thorgot]

Thanks for the detailed feedback from the server!

 

I just wanted to personally thank you, @thorgot for creating such an amazing map. I went ahead and tested this map with an almost full server. I asked a couple questions and these were the results:

 

 

-This was one issue the players had. A little less than half the server thought the map was too big.

Ok, I'll keep this in mind. I believe this number will drop over time as people learn where things are.

 

 

-By far this was the biggest thing your map needs improvement on. From the 30 mins that the server played your map, there was a feeling of lack of guns on the map, other than armory. Also, from our play through, the only way into armory was via the big catwalk that stretches across the map. There is a door on the catwalk that you need a gun, in order to break the wood that is barricading the door from the other side. I think if there was some more guns that the Ts had access too, it would feel more of a jailbreak map, rather than a big map full of mini games.

It sounds like people have a hard time rebelling right now. I've noticed the same thing on other servers but I'm hesitant to add too much. I'll explain. There are three ways for terrorists to get into armory right now (the vent above Strafe Jump, the vent in Disco, and the vent by the Volleyball control). Two of them require a gun (the doors, as you said). There is a gun hidden in Simon, next to Jumprope/9 Colors, next to Volleyball/Roulette, in Decathlon (but only if you finish the race in first or second), in Disco, and two in Climb. This is every section of the map (counting Surf and Roulette as the same area). Once someone learns where these guns are hidden, it becomes trivial to get a gun to shoot with or get into armory no matter where you are as long as you don't get unlucky and stumble across a CT while you're executing the secret. If I add too many more guns, it will be an unpopular decision to remove any once the balance of the map shifts. However, you have a good point that there are no obvious guns to rebel with. I'll add a visible pistol to the pipe next to surf and add a scout to the top of the climb tower and extend that tower to the ground so Ts can just run and grab those guns even if they don't know any of the secrets.

 

HOWEVER, on the bright side,

 

 

-Your map was a success on the server. The server loves the map.

I'm glad to hear it!

 

As a JB reg, i'd like to add some of my input towards the map:

 

-Armory door stays up too long, this allows for some quick Ts to get into armory if CTs aren't paying attention

-As stated above, perhaps add some more rebelious secrets to make the map feel more like a jailbreak map, rather than a minigame map

-Remove the buyzone in armory so that pressing the buttons to obtain weapons from the wall of armory is easier

-For surf, a lot of people were getting stuck in the loser, uh, tube thing(when you fall into the lava), making the prisoners stuck in there, and if dmg was on, rather than getting hurt with 10 dmg, they may die cause they were stuck in the dmg thing.

 

If you improve on these, I feel the map will become even better. Thanks for all the work that you have been doing!

-I'll lower the time the door is open.

-I addressed the secrets concern above, but to summarize: if you're alone and know all the secrets, you can definitely get a gun and probably get to armory.

-I'll move back the buyzone so it doesn't cover the buttons. In the meantime, I highly suggest you set cl_use_opens_buy_menu 0 for your own sanity.

-You have collision off, right? And this was with normal gravity and 66 tick? Were those getting stuck people with player models that are larger than normal or a noticable set of player models? I'll increase the width of the tube and move the teleport away from the wall further, but this hasn't been a problem on other servers.

 

TLDR: For jb_undertale_b3 I'll add a few obvious guns to go along with the plethora of hidden guns so those new to the map can rebel too, lower the close time for armory door, move back the buyzone for those who have cl_use_opens_buy_menu 1, and increase the size of the surf tube to see if that helps people who are getting stuck.

[Souce Boss]

TLDR: For jb_undertale_b3 I'll add a few obvious guns to go along with the plethora of hidden guns so those new to the map can rebel too, lower the close time for armory door, move back the buyzone for those who have cl_use_opens_buy_menu 1, and increase the size of the surf tube to see if that helps people who are getting stuck.

 

Thanks @thorgot! As for the server settings, I have no clue as to what they are. @Nuclear Onion and @Wawa should know as they are the owners of the servers. Can't wait to see V3!

[Wawa]

-You have collision off, right? And this was with normal gravity and 66 tick? Were those getting stuck people with player models that are larger than normal or a noticable set of player models? I'll increase the width of the tube and move the teleport away from the wall further, but this hasn't been a problem on other servers.

 

We have collision enabled, normal gravity, and 128 tick rate in the server settings.

[thorgot]

We have collision enabled, normal gravity, and 128 tick rate in the server settings.

 

Collision on meaning if a terrorist and counter terrorist get teleported to the same place they'll get stuck? Was a CT perhaps doing surf? Or if collision is on for all players to all other players, I don't see how any JB maps with surfs or other teleport-heavy games work.

 

Just played on the server for a bit. You have a plugin named AntiStuck. I'm guessing the best solution would be to move the hurt trigger to just above the teleporter and remove the tube so the plugin can free people? I can do the same for strafe jump which has the same system.