How would you like to see us go about the DG rule? 55 members have voted

[Goku]

So the new rules have been live for 4 days now. After day one, restrictions were put in place and for the most part seemed to somewhat fix some people's issues. However from what I can gather, it's still mixed feedback with some liking the change of pace, and some not so much. One thing I wanted to do with these changes was give it a fair amount of time for people to get somewhat used to them and form a solid opinion that wasn't a kneejerk reaction.

 

Sadly work got unexpectedly busy since Tuesday, so I wasn't able to be on first hand nearly as much as I hoped. Since then I've heard some people enjoying it, some people liking it but in between on whether to keep it, and some people flat out just wanting it gone. Four days is a solid length of time IMO to form an opinion on something, so this thread is going to determine the fate of the forced DG rule.

 

Now, before going any further, there is one more possible restriction that has been considered, and that is setting it where CTs can't force deathgames until 2:30 AND there can be no more than 6 Ts alive. But rather than putting this on, I'd much rather just see if we would be better of just flat out removing the rule than adding another restriction to it.

 

So, I'll give this thread a little bit of time for people to post their collected thoughts on the rule change and whether or not we'll just remove the rule entirely since it doesn't quite seem to be going over as smooth as intended. Please vote in the poll and post your thoughts and encourage players that don't typically browse the forums, to put their thoughts here as well.

 

Not going to set a hard time on when any changes would be made because of this thread. Just depends how the feedback goes. I'll give it at least a day or so and potentially do something Christmas day or the 26th.

 

Edit: I'm tired as fuck and going to bed for the night. I'll reply to any posts if needed when I get up in the morning.

[Frostbitten]

I like the change of pace since the Forced DG rule was enacted, tbh. To me, it seems better.

 

 

However, I have seen people run down the clock just so they can force a deathgame. I have seen an influx of "CrouchWalk/ShiftWalk [insert area here]" orders just so the CTs can kill time and, as soon as the timer hits 2:30, force a deathgame.

 

 

The rule's fine. I still see some new people and even regulars having some trouble taking this all in, so I'd say give it a few more days. I also say keep the rule, but nerf it so CTs won't be going after DGs all the time.

[delirium]

I like the change of pace since the Forced DG rule was enacted, tbh. To me, it seems better.

 

 

However, I have seen people run down the clock just so they can force a deathgame. I have seen an influx of "CrouchWalk/ShiftWalk [insert area here]" orders just so the CTs can kill time and, as soon as the timer hits 2:30, force a deathgame.

 

 

The rule's fine. I still see some new people and even regulars having some trouble taking this all in, so I'd say give it a few more days. I also say keep the rule, but nerf it so CTs won't be going after DGs all the time.

 

This pretty much.

 

I hope death games are here to stay even if its not in its current form. maybe 1 forced death game every 3-4 rounds could change the minds of those that strongly support the complete removal of death games.

[CollieFlower]

This pretty much.

 

I hope death games are here to stay even if its not in its current form. maybe 1 forced death game every 3-4 rounds could change the minds of those that strongly support the complete removal of death games.

I would be happy to give that a shot. I like the idea of no forced death games, but with this in effect we get to use more of the maps supplied games

[Caution]

Forced death games will never, ever work based upon the existing rules in PB. I strongly believe PB has always had a strong following based upon us not having forced death games and no wardens (among other things, but most notably those).

 

You can add a million stipulations, but at the end of the day, whatever limit of T's it is set to, be it 6, 10, 15, etc., there are always going to be a way around it. The reason why is because all you would need to do is wait until that limit is reached, then force 'Simon Says' enough until everyone is dead - which is completely possible considering it seems every CT has different stipulations as to what is considered 'losing' on Simon Says. That's why it surprises me that 'Fish in a Barrel' isn't allowed, when that would be probably the last death game I would worry about - just say one CT can perform the death game, and they are only allowed one magazine to empty. Simon Says is so subjective that I see a new twist on it every time I play.

 

But I digress. Even if all deathgames that were not map-made are banned, it would be extremely easy to just wait for the timer, wait for the amount of T's to be reached, then stick them in the roulette pit and spin the ball until eventually they are all dead. The amount of restrictions and stipulations required to allow death games and still maintain a relatively happy player-base is beyond it even being worth the effort. On top of all of this, I feel like a '6 T's or less' stipulation would only cause CT's to become even more trigger-happy and thus promote more free killing / lack of warning shots.

 

I don't claim to have the most time or activity on PB nowadays, but I have managed it (or was helping manage it) since I was an SA in 2008 to 2014 when we converted to CSGO. I understand the player-base changes and the wants / needs of the server changes as T's, CT's, and map makers become more innovative (be it good or bad). Forced death games is fun to experiment with as a CT, especially for a lot of players that have never played on a different PB server - but that hype for CT's will quickly be drowned out by the massive amount of people who will refuse to play T and either stack the CT team or just go to another server.

 

With that being said, I remain as adamant today as I was 8 years ago as far as forced death games go: it is single-handedly the worst possible rule change that could be put on SG's PB server. It was cool giving it a shot, but it is not working out in anyone's favor and is ultimately doing more harm than good, in my opinion.

[All Ts]

I agree with @Caution, don't want to restate/reword half of what he said but I definitely agree that a plethora of issues arises when you have lots of restrictions tagged along with the Forced Death games rule.

 

I was somewhat interested to see if the new player-base could possibly work with the Forced Deathgames (even though I always thought it was the equivalent handing a toddler a revolver) but I'm very sure after observing how people reacted that keeping it-even with the restrictions would lead to more unnecessary issues.

 

I feel like many people as of recent are trying to change a system that isn't broken and it's leading to lots of impulsive changes that are hurting more than helping. I think I can speak for the majority of SG PB regulars when I say that not having warnings shots and a warden system are things we NEVER want implemented.

 

In saying that.. @Goku I think in the future you shouldn't have the mindset that just cause you could try something, doesn't mean you should (there is the other extreme of not adding things because of hypotheticals, but this simply wasn't it) and if it leaves room for abuse it should be completely avoided. The population at SG's PB don't play for fancy plugins and strict rules, they play for the flexibility & sense of community. Not trying to put you on blast but in our hours worth of conversations/forum posts during this entire ordeal I felt as if my suggestions were going extremely undervalued and sometimes not even taken into consideration. By the time you started listening @Caution and @Delirium were already parading through PB showcasing the very things I told you would happen and I honestly think that it shouldn't have taken you so long to acknowledge the issues with the change. Anyway, the other changes you made were very good I just personally think you shouldn't have been so stubborn about it.

 

To highlight an extremely important section of this post.

 

The PB community & regulars in the future needs to be more vocal on changes like these so that we don't end up adding stuff to the servers that gets our regs pissed off and hurts our new player retention. In all of the threads about these changes I did my best with people like @RabbitinaHat or @Mad Dogg but we simply need more input.

 

On board for removing the Forced Death games and leaving the rest of the changes well enough alone.

[delirium]

I agree with @Caution, don't want to restate/reword half of what he said but I definitely agree that a plethora of issues arises when you have lots of restrictions tagged along with the Forced Death games rule.

 

I was somewhat interested to see if the new player-base could possibly work with the Forced Deathgames (even though I always thought it was the equivalent handing a toddler a revolver) but I'm very sure after observing how people reacted that keeping it-even with the restrictions would lead to more unnecessary issues.

 

I feel like many people as of recent are trying to change a system that isn't broken and it's leading to lots of impulsive changes that are hurting more than helping. I think I can speak for the majority of SG PB regulars when I say that not having warnings shots and a warden system are things we NEVER want implemented.

 

In saying that.. @Goku I think in the future you shouldn't have the mindset that just cause you could try something, doesn't mean you should (there is the other extreme of not adding things because of hypotheticals, but this simply wasn't it) and if it leaves room for abuse it should be completely avoided. The population at SG's PB don't play for fancy plugins and strict rules, they play for the flexibility & sense of community. Not trying to put you on blast but in our hours worth of conversations/forum posts during this entire ordeal I felt as if my suggestions were going extremely undervalued and sometimes not even taken into consideration. By the time you started listening @Caution and @Delirium were already parading through PB showcasing the very things I told you would happen and I honestly think that it shouldn't have taken you so long to acknowledge the issues with the change. Anyway, the other changes you made were very good I just personally think you shouldn't have been so stubborn about it.

 

To highlight an extremely important section of this post.

 

The PB community & regulars in the future needs to be more vocal on changes like these so that we don't end up adding stuff to the servers that gets our regs pissed off and hurts our new player retention. In all of the threads about these changes I did my best with people like @RabbitinaHat or @Mad Dogg but we simply need more input.

 

On board for removing the Forced Death games and leaving the rest of the changes well enough alone.

 

In all fairness, @Goku was against death games from the very beginning... It was mostly us CA's that pushed for it.

 

However, I do believe that some sort of change needed to happen. If jailbreak isn't broken as you claim then why is it displaying symptoms of being broke? Stagnant population with very little growth, staff would rather play other servers if there's no other admins on just to name a couple. The main complaints I've been hearing is that rounds take too long due to delay during low-mid population and that it's too chaotic during peak hours. Implementing forced lrs and death games was supposed to give CT's more options than just "crouch/shift walk to X", open up the map pool, and speed rounds up by encouraging T's to rebel before they either win the death game or die.

 

The problems with the Jailbreak server will never be the rules, people will find ways to make it miserable for others regardless.

[The Real Slim Jim]

Forced death games will never, ever work based upon the existing rules in PB. I strongly believe PB has always had a strong following based upon us not having forced death games and no wardens (among other things, but most notably those).

 

You can add a million stipulations, but at the end of the day, whatever limit of T's it is set to, be it 6, 10, 15, etc., there are always going to be a way around it. The reason why is because all you would need to do is wait until that limit is reached, then force 'Simon Says' enough until everyone is dead - which is completely possible considering it seems every CT has different stipulations as to what is considered 'losing' on Simon Says. That's why it surprises me that 'Fish in a Barrel' isn't allowed, when that would be probably the last death game I would worry about - just say one CT can perform the death game, and they are only allowed one magazine to empty. Simon Says is so subjective that I see a new twist on it every time I play.

 

But I digress. Even if all deathgames that were not map-made are banned, it would be extremely easy to just wait for the timer, wait for the amount of T's to be reached, then stick them in the roulette pit and spin the ball until eventually they are all dead. The amount of restrictions and stipulations required to allow death games and still maintain a relatively happy player-base is beyond it even being worth the effort. On top of all of this, I feel like a '6 T's or less' stipulation would only cause CT's to become even more trigger-happy and thus promote more free killing / lack of warning shots.

 

I don't claim to have the most time or activity on PB nowadays, but I have managed it (or was helping manage it) since I was an SA in 2008 to 2014 when we converted to CSGO. I understand the player-base changes and the wants / needs of the server changes as T's, CT's, and map makers become more innovative (be it good or bad). Forced death games is fun to experiment with as a CT, especially for a lot of players that have never played on a different PB server - but that hype for CT's will quickly be drowned out by the massive amount of people who will refuse to play T and either stack the CT team or just go to another server.

 

With that being said, I remain as adamant today as I was 8 years ago as far as forced death games go: it is single-handedly the worst possible rule change that could be put on SG's PB server. It was cool giving it a shot, but it is not working out in anyone's favor and is ultimately doing more harm than good, in my opinion.

couldntagreemore

so far in my time playing after the rule update its been ct's waiting out the clock to force a death game.

thats it, and the reason i played as a part of this community was to get away from the neo-nazi wardens and deathgame after deathgame of every other jb server.

i can say, for me atleast, "crouch walk to soccer no jumping" or "shift walk to disco jumping is restricted" followed by an order to shift to the opposite side of the map is boring and cancer. and its done just so they can force a death game, and raise their kd by making it frlr or simon says. ive only seen one map made death gmae being forced and that was colours. i dont mind map deathgames as much bc the majority take skill, but when i have to play some shitty game that a twelvie wants to force so he can get a better kd it makes me want to stop playing jb.

anyways just mp op, didnt mean to rant.

[TL;DR] forced deathgames are shit and cancer]

[R3TROATTACK]

Even though I have hardly played CSGO JB since it was made I feel I need to give my honest opinion on this.

 

I don't agree with anyone in this thread who thinks forced death games are the plague and should never be added to SG JB because simply in CSGO maps are designed with death games in mind, back in CSS maps were less death gamey and more CT/T interaction/roleplay. And it also helps any players new to our server that is used to other servers rules. While I completely agree with everyone who says the implementation was complete shit no offence @Goku, I think this is a growing pain that SG needs to go through to get a more populated JB server in the end.

 

With that being said, I remain as adamant today as I was 8 years ago as far as forced death games go: it is single-handedly the worst possible rule change that could be put on SG's PB server.

 

Honestly in my opinion this mentality is what is hurting certain servers because we don't want to change anything or move on with the times to what actually keeps servers like HG at 64/64 players(that is complete cancer). I'm not saying we should change our servers to be exactly like them but if they are managing to keep a JB server well staffed, populated and fun by having wardens/forced death games I think we should honestly look into what they are doing and see if there is anything we can take or adapt to fit the SG play style.

 

tl;dr Forced death games should stay and we should just figure out what we need to do without completely killing it to make it work resonably

 

Time to never post on this cancerous section again

[sean]

This pretty much.

 

I hope death games are here to stay even if its not in its current form. maybe 1 forced death game every 3-4 rounds could change the minds of those that strongly support the complete removal of death games.

 

I'm not sure how this would work because how would you keep track of rounds. I think it's either stay or leave at this point, I don't think having a certain amount of rounds between deathgames would work. Personally, I don't agree with forced deathgames, hence why I haven't really connected to play, only spectate, since it was added. But I play JB with a passive, old man in jail for 40 years playstyle so I don't have much say in the matter.