PB Evaluation

[Wawa]

For now just me. We'll probably add a second manager once we promote some new AO's.

 

 

#Vick4JB

[ExRev]

 

#Vick4JB

 

#Vick4DoingSomething?

[Caution]

We actually plan on promoting Vick to CA.

[Valk]

I think most of the rules are fine, but a few need to be reworked.

 

First off forced death games should have more focus on death games that are on the map. Most times when I play on the server we are playing simon says or FRLR. I think making a limit on how many they can do per map. I know some maps don't have that many death games, so on those maps maybe lower the limit. There are so many great maps that have fun death games, but those features of the map are not utilized.

 

I also don't believe CT's should be allowed to give the order of making T's going off mic. It really has no purpose. I've seen CT's use it to have an excuse to kill mic spammers, so they don't have to hear them. Instead of letting an admin mute them.

 

I know I'm not JB reg, but I've been playing more then I have in the past. These are just a few things that should be changed. Plz let me know if any of this is wrong or have better way of doing these things.

[Mad Dogg]

The biggest problem with forced deathgames right now is that most of the rounds we end up playing fr/lr or simon says at the location they the ts were send to. The forced deathgames were originally added to promote some of the map made games, but at the moment that's not the case(at least most of the time). I have to say, forced deathgames can be fun at their best, but it gets really annoying when those two CT controlled games are played over and over. My suggestion would be to only allow map made deathgames. I believe this would make the rounds a little bit more interesting.

 

I still wouldn't mind removing forced deathgames altogether.

 

I also don't believe CT's should be allowed to give the order of making T's going off mic. It really has no purpose. I've seen CT's use it to have an excuse to kill mic spammers, so they don't have to hear them. Instead of letting an admin mute them.

 

It is actually very useful for the CTs to be able to give this order. There are times when the Ts like to be very loud and talk over CTs trying to give orders, so being able to tell the Ts to be off mic while the CTs give orders should be allowed. This should be the only case the CTs use this order and not for longer. I believe other uses of this order would fall under the "CT's must give reasonable orders" rule, since it's not really reasonable to tell the Ts go off mic just because they were being annoying.

[BlackWhite]

First off forced death games should have more focus on death games that are on the map. Most times when I play on the server we are playing simon says or FRLR. I think making a limit on how many they can do per map. I know some maps don't have that many death games, so on those maps maybe lower the limit. There are so many great maps that have fun death games, but those features of the map are not utilized.

 

The biggest problem with forced deathgames right now is that most of the rounds we end up playing fr/lr or simon says at the location they the ts were send to. The forced deathgames were originally added to promote some of the map made games, but at the moment that's not the case(at least most of the time). I have to say, forced deathgames can be fun at their best, but it gets really annoying when those two CT controlled games are played over and over. My suggestion would be to only allow map made deathgames. I believe this would make the rounds a little bit more interesting.

I agreed to the point both LampShade and Mad dogg have stated. Cts abused afk freeze, time-limit forced death games, choice of death games and off mic just so they can get kills. Puting forced death games only available for map that have death games would make the round more interesting rather than just wait until 2:30. Limit forced death games similar to normal orders so they can't repeat it. As for abusing off mic, delays and afk freezes, these only admins could handle with it.

 

Personally I wish the rules could be more clear for admins to work on so admins willing to visit PB regularly. Setting the rules the same as forum could help a lot. Since there are people who doesn't go to forum to confirm and claims others including admin "making up rules".

[frosty]

Remove rank from the server, encourages kills and generally pointless to JB gamemode as a whole anyway.

[Brando]

Honestly I like the rules ATM. I personally like the force death games only after 2:30 because I hate how ts just delay the game. If there is anyway to change that around I would enjoy it.

[Luke]

The biggest problem with forced deathgames right now is that most of the rounds we end up playing fr/lr or simon says at the location they the ts were send to. The forced deathgames were originally added to promote some of the map made games, but at the moment that's not the case(at least most of the time). I have to say, forced deathgames can be fun at their best, but it gets really annoying when those two CT controlled games are played over and over. My suggestion would be to only allow map made deathgames. I believe this would make the rounds a little bit more interesting.

 

I still wouldn't mind removing forced deathgames altogether.

 

 

 

It is actually very useful for the CTs to be able to give this order. There are times when the Ts like to be very loud and talk over CTs trying to give orders, so being able to tell the Ts to be off mic while the CTs give orders should be allowed. This should be the only case the CTs use this order and not for longer. I believe other uses of this order would fall under the "CT's must give reasonable orders" rule, since it's not really reasonable to tell the Ts go off mic just because they were being annoying.

 

I agree with pretty much all of this. I'm for forced death games as a thing, but not in its entirety as it currently stands. My preference would be similar to Mad Dogg's here that we should restrict it to purely map only death games. A big selling point to most on the idea of death games was to get the map used and to create a variety of orders. In its current state it sounds like it would just become the same two in a very repetitive way - thus I'm for map only forced death games.

 

However I don't currently want to see forced death games removes as it appears a large sum of people would also like to see it continue, I hope we can adjust it so that it works without it being removed.

 

As for the part about 'All T's of mic' +1

[Caution]

 

First off forced death games should have more focus on death games that are on the map. Most times when I play on the server we are playing simon says or FRLR. I think making a limit on how many they can do per map. I know some maps don't have that many death games, so on those maps maybe lower the limit. There are so many great maps that have fun death games, but those features of the map are not utilized.

 

Will comment below.

 

I also don't believe CT's should be allowed to give the order of making T's going off mic. It really has no purpose. I've seen CT's use it to have an excuse to kill mic spammers, so they don't have to hear them. Instead of letting an admin mute them.

 

I don't have any intention of changing this around. This, in my opinion, is extremely useful. T's are always giving orders to try and trick other T's (and even CT's) into thinking something else. While this is sort of douchey, in my opinion, I look at it the same exact way I look at T's who snitch on other T's:

 

I personally think it's part of the game mode. The T's are meant to be deceptive, sneaky, and do anything they can do gain an edge over CT's. Some do this by sneaking off into a restricted area, some by giving false orders in hopes that CT's actually do believe they have a free day, and some simply play kiss-ass so they can gain favor with the CT's.

 

The biggest problem with forced deathgames right now is that most of the rounds we end up playing fr/lr or simon says at the location they the ts were send to. The forced deathgames were originally added to promote some of the map made games, but at the moment that's not the case(at least most of the time). I have to say, forced deathgames can be fun at their best, but it gets really annoying when those two CT controlled games are played over and over. My suggestion would be to only allow map made deathgames. I believe this would make the rounds a little bit more interesting.

 

Will comment below.

 

 

Cts abused afk freeze, time-limit forced death games, choice of death games and off mic just so they can get kills. Puting forced death games only available for map that have death games would make the round more interesting rather than just wait until 2:30. Limit forced death games similar to normal orders so they can't repeat it. As for abusing off mic, delays and afk freezes, these only admins could handle with it.

 

Will comment below.

 

 

I agree with pretty much all of this. I'm for forced death games as a thing, but not in its entirety as it currently stands. My preference would be similar to Mad Dogg's here that we should restrict it to purely map only death games. A big selling point to most on the idea of death games was to get the map used and to create a variety of orders. In its current state it sounds like it would just become the same two in a very repetitive way - thus I'm for map only forced death games.

 

However I don't currently want to see forced death games removes as it appears a large sum of people would also like to see it continue, I hope we can adjust it so that it works without it being removed.

 

Will comment below.

 

 

 

Okay, so after reading and listening to some of the comments / concerns (and playing in the server), here's some possible suggestions and feedback from me. Please note these are suggestions in a discussion and are not, at this point, an actual implemented rule change:

 

For starters, T's delaying rounds was a huge concern in PB. Forced LR's is a great rule change, in my opinion, and cuts down on this quite a bit. I don't plan on touching that at all.

 

Moving onto death games - one problem seems to be the repetitive use of FRLR and Simon Says. When Goku initially installed this rule, one of the primary reasons for allowing forced death games was mentioned as being able to use more functions of the map that were not being used previously - ie the huge amount of deathgames that are located in some maps. As it stands, it's increasingly apparent that this isn't really happening, and that it's always FRLR / Simon Says. One possible workaround for this would be to do as suggested, and only allow map-made deathgames - period. In the instance that T's agree to FRLR or any other CT created death game, then cool, but it shall not be forced.

 

Issuing limited numbers of death games per round based upon the map would be extremely confusing and hard for people to learn and understand. However, allowing one forced death games per round would alleviate the issues arising from the possibility of a CT sending all the T's to a roulette pit and keep spinning the ball until they are all dead.

 

After doing a bit of thinking on this whole topic, my thought process is, in summary:

 

 

• Forced death games have the advantage of thinning the T's numbers a bit, and in that way can work in favor of keeping the round times down.
  
• Forced death games such as FRLR & Simon Says can be played repetitively until all T's are dead (as long as they mix it up slightly so it's not, in a literal sense, every single round. While this isn't technically a 'CT decided death', anyone can kill off all the T's in one sweep if they just keep playing. As it stands, we don't have rules that say "During Simon Says, you have to do it this way" or "The last T is automatically the winner and cannot be forced to keep playing. Even though this should be common sense, the reason why this is a big deal is because of this scenario: Random SA joins PB. CT does the aforementioned and makes T's play Simon Says until they are all dead. Admin slays said CT. CT files an admin complaint because he broke no actual rule. Admin is now facing possible punishment for enforcing something that isn't a rule. While this is just one example and I am not saying an admin would or would not receive punishment, I think it's shitty of me as a leader in general to put you guys in a scenario where you're even being discussed for a punishment. You can let your imagination run rampant with possible scenarios of where this could work out poorly for all parties involved.
  
• Having clear, defined rules is great, but you have to weigh the output of how many stipulations you are requiring for a certain rule to be in effect. If, in the event, we have to add 10 stipulations to forced death games for them to be kosher with all parties involved, is it really worth putting up pages and pages of stipulations for ONE rule for players and admins to read so everyone is on the same page?
  

 

 

So, if we were to keep death games, these would be my suggested changes...these are completely subject to change if someone can point out reasonable flaws, it just doesn't work, or if better ideas get tossed out. These are not the specific way I would word them in a 'Rule Guide', it's moreso just getting ideas out there. I'm open to suggestions and criticism:

 

 

• No time limit or T limit required for when a CT can force a map made death game.
  
• CT's can only FORCE one death game per round. This mean one round of whatever one death game the CT's choose that is map made.
  
• Reword the 'special orders' rule so that CT's may give T's who live after a death game a freeday, IF they wish to. This builds incentive for T's to possibly want to participate in any future death games CT's may want to initiate after their one forced death game has been used. All normal free days rules apply, so they can be revoked at any time, etc. (This one I'm not too strongly about. I'd be willing to test it, but I'm not super confident that it would work - but I definitely think it's a possibility. Wording would probably need a little tweaking.)
  
• Forced LR's can still be initiated once the requirement is reached, even if CT's have forced a death game. This is a complete separate entity.
  
• Any deathgame deemed as broken, bugged, or does not give a possible chance of survival, will not be allowed to be forced. These will be a specific case-by-case basis and I would be the sole person rendering a decision on that. It will not be left up to SA discretion as there are too many of you and that will get confusing real quick. The only one I can even think of off the top of my head is breakfloor on the Spy map, which does not usually (if ever) allow T's to live.
  

 

 

I'll be on TS / steam all day if you guys want to shoot me a message or talk to me about suggestions. I plan on doing a meeting on Friday, more than likely. Stand by for official day / time.