Jailbreak Discussion/Feedback

[WavY]

I agree to making it implied if that if a Ct says crouch walk somewhere that you don't jump because if you start to jump you are no longer walking imo. Like if someone had you at gunpoint and told you to crouch walk to a pool you wouldn't be like "You never said I couldn't jump!". But to put it in another viewpoint, we have no detours or delays implied already so why can't no jumping while being told to either shift or crouch walk. Regardless of that it's not a big deal really just to say it but it would definitely lessen confusion of orders considering when adding more words to an order some ts or cts may not hear it leading to someone to think they are freeshot or conflicting orders.

[Dominic]

@ExRev @WavY

 

You do realize I can jump while still being crouched right? There is no technicality or opinion on this, if I jump while being told to crouch walk somewhere jumping doesn't require me to uncrouch, I'm still crouched.

[Four]

I still think that that is the correct route to go. It's much easier for a CT to add "no jumping" than it is for a T to assume they can't jump. When a new person to our server joins, how are they supposed to know that they can't jump? Far as they're concerned they are still crouching as told.

The same way new players learn not to Free-kill as a CT. It literally brings up the rules of Jailbreak every-time you connect to our server. If "no jumping" is implied overall it will help stop the confusion whether or not the CT said it or not.

 

Also I'd like to mention the players that take this for granted and decide to BHop to the next location with the response of "You never said no jumping".

 

You do realize I can jump while still being crouched right? There is no technicality or opinion on this, if I jump while being told to crouch walk somewhere jumping doesn't require me to uncrouch, I'm still crouched.

Yes, you are correct if you want to speak in "technical terms" but overall it would stop the issues that regulars cause by jumping even though literally every single time a CT says the order "crouch/shift walk to x location" (If they are experienced) will say "no jumping" at the end of their order. Occasionally you will have that instance that the CTs forget and the Ts follow start to jump one by one, everytime a regular will start this chain reaction. (Monkey see, Monkey do) and will cause more mayhem that is unnecessary.

[ExRev]

@ExRev @WavY

 

You do realize I can jump while still being crouched right? There is no technicality or opinion on this, if I jump while being told to crouch walk somewhere jumping doesn't require me to uncrouch, I'm still crouched.

 

Yes, you are correct if you want to speak in "technical terms" but overall it would stop the issues that regulars cause by jumping even though literally every single time a CT says the order "crouch/shift walk to x location" (If they are experienced) will say "no jumping" at the end of their order. Occasionally you will have that instance that the CTs forget and the Ts follow start to jump one by one, everytime a regular will start this chain reaction. (Monkey see, Monkey do) and will cause more mayhem that is unnecessary.

 

^ @Dominic

 

And I can strafe while crouching, and delay while crouching, and not follow orders while crouching.....it's the same thing. If CTs order "crouch to X" then orders are to crouch. Not crouch jump. It's literally a simple, follow the order given.

[Goku]

Actually, having it implied isn't a terrible idea. Because technically by jumping you are going against the order which was to be crouching.

 

But I bring that up because if we're expecting CTs to add "no jumping" because it's "not that hard to tack on" then the issue is going to come down to every little tiny variation that we know Ts are to think of. CTs shouldn't have to give orders like "One step out, face your cell, freeze. No jumping, no crouching, no panther steps ( @Goku looking at you specifically on this one still), no bhopping, etc etc etc"

 

Basically, the ruling should just be "Follow the fucking order"

Order is to crouch to pool. You jump while remaining crouched, you're still crouched. That's my point. The original stance years ago was that when you jumped, you weren't crouching. I begged to differ and changed the stance, which I still stand behind. If they uncrouch while jumping, yeah go ahead and shoot them.

 

And CTs don't have to give orders like "One step out, face your cell, freeze. No jumping, no crouching, no panther steps no bhopping". One step out and freeze means just that. At least in regards to jump steps or the retarded ass Panther steps. I made it very clear throughout my time as AO that if someone took more than one step, they weren't following the classic "one step out face the cell and freeze" order. Panther steps as far I know aren't even a thing anymore, and when they were it was hardly my fault. Blame the retarded kids that took my joke I made before I was even admin, and ran with it. But one step out and freeze means exactly that. You take one step and freeze.

 

I say just tack on "no jumping" because IMO if they remained crouched while jumping, the order is still being fulfilled. Which is what this ultimately boils down to. Whether or not you believe that staying crouched while jumping is fulfilling the "crouch" part of the order. Which I do, and that's currently how the rule still stands.

 

The same way new players learn not to Free-kill as a CT. It literally brings up the rules of Jailbreak every-time you connect to our server. If "no jumping" is implied overall it will help stop the confusion whether or not the CT said it or not.

 

Also I'd like to mention the players that take this for granted and decide to BHop to the next location with the response of "You never said no jumping".

 

Yes, you are correct if you want to speak in "technical terms" but overall it would stop the issues that regulars cause by jumping even though literally every single time a CT says the order "crouch/shift walk to x location" (If they are experienced) will say "no jumping" at the end of their order. Occasionally you will have that instance that the CTs forget and the Ts follow start to jump one by one, everytime a regular will start this chain reaction. (Monkey see, Monkey do) and will cause more mayhem that is unnecessary.

 

I'd love to see someone manage to legitimately bhop while crouch jumping. Again, if they uncrouch while jumping, they can be shot. But AFAIK, you can't remain crouched and build up speed to actually bhop somewhere.

 

The whole "jumping isn't implied" doesn't show up on the server unless it was added after my departure. It only appears in the FAQ thread. One of the things I did while AO was try to limit the amount of rules listed in the !rules plugin since at one point I believe we had over 30. And there's a difference in learning basic fundamentals of the game if you're new (such as not freekilling) and learning the technicalities of the specific servers rules. It's much easier for CTs to say what they want (no jumping) than for a new player (either to our server, or JB in general), to just assume no jumping is implied. Yes, it could be added to the !rules plugin so someone won't have to check the forums, but the rules plugin is there for IMO for the more core elements of the game. Such as wardens, warning shots, detour/delay etc.

 

And again I ask why does this matter? If you start from a crouch walk, and jump while remaining crouched, you aren't going to gain momentum. This entire argument ultimately boils down to, as I said before, whether or not you believe that jumping while remaining crouched, fulfills the "crouch walk" order. I still believe it does since you are still crouched, and that's what the rules reflect. If the new AOs in charge beg to differ and change it then so be it.

 

Something like no d/ds is implied and on the server rule list because it's a very crucial part of the mode and applies to every single order given. Specifying whether or not no jumping is implied to crouch walk orders only pertains to that one order and as such doesn't warrant a slot on the !rules plugin imo. It's clarified only in the FAQ thread because it is a FAQ. From a rule standpoint it's easier for CTs to just state what they want from the Ts. As such I still stand by my point that it's better for CTs to just say no jumping.

[Bubblez]

That's what I'm talking about, before Prison Break was very simple and logical. The rules were straight forward and to the point. By adding the "no jumping" and all these extra things for specific situations, you are complicating the CT's job.

 

@Goku I do see your point where "it's just jumping" and that it doesn't make our situation that difficult to say it. But why don't we say no delays or detours anymore if it's that easy for us to tack on? Because it makes sense that they shouldn't be delaying or going else where when told to do something.

 

Also, quick fact to point out. If you are on the server, you will notice that all of the actual randoms and noobs that join the server follow the order when told to crouch or shift walk somewhere. They follow this order because it makes sense. You crouch when you are told to crouch. It's the regulars that disobey this simple order just because they can. Again, this is a method at reducing the amount of unnecessary bitching that occurs on the server, I could care less if it makes the Ct's job a bit easier.

[Nemesis]

If you are on the server, you will notice that all of the actual randoms and noobs that join the server follow the order when told to crouch or shift walk somewhere. They follow this order because it makes sense. You crouch when you are told to crouch. It's the regulars that disobey this simple order just because they can. Again, this is a method at reducing the amount of unnecessary bitching that occurs on the server, I could care less if it makes the Ct's job a bit easier.

 

You summed it up nicely. People want to go against the orders given by doing these little things but then they cry out if they get a warning shot for them.

It makes no sense to me how somebody can knowingly disobey by "reading between the rules" but also act as if they have the moral highground in what they are doing. Its just annoying as fuck in the end.

 

But then again most of the players playing PB nowadays are annoying to deal with simple as that.

[ExRev]

That's what I'm talking about, before Prison Break was very simple and logical. The rules were straight forward and to the point. By adding the "no jumping" and all these extra things for specific situations, you are complicating the CT's job.

 

@Goku I do see your point where "it's just jumping" and that it doesn't make our situation that difficult to say it. But why don't we say no delays or detours anymore if it's that easy for us to tack on? Because it makes sense that they shouldn't be delaying or going else where when told to do something.

 

Also, quick fact to point out. If you are on the server, you will notice that all of the actual randoms and noobs that join the server follow the order when told to crouch or shift walk somewhere. They follow this order because it makes sense. You crouch when you are told to crouch. It's the regulars that disobey this simple order just because they can. Again, this is a method at reducing the amount of unnecessary bitching that occurs on the server, I could care less if it makes the Ct's job a bit easier.

 

You summed it up nicely. People want to go against the orders given by doing these little things but then they cry out if they get a warning shot for them.

It makes no sense to me how somebody can knowingly disobey by "reading between the rules" but also act as if they have the moral highground in what they are doing. Its just annoying as fuck in the end.

 

But then again most of the players playing PB nowadays are annoying to deal with simple as that.

 

Once more for the regulars in the back.

[Goku]

But why don't we say no delays or detours anymore if it's that easy for us to tack on? Because it makes sense that they shouldn't be delaying or going else where when told to do something.

 

V

 

Something like no d/ds is implied and on the server rule list because it's a very crucial part of the mode and applies to every single order given. Specifying whether or not no jumping is implied to crouch walk orders only pertains to that one order

 

That's what I'm talking about, before Prison Break was very simple and logical. The rules were straight forward and to the point. By adding the "no jumping" and all these extra things for specific situations, you are complicating the CT's job.

 

As it currently stands, when you tell a T to crouch to pool, all you have to do to avoid them jumping if you don't want them to, is say "no jumping". Compared to if "no jumping" was in the rules you then have someone jump and get warning shot, and referred to the rules where it says "no jumping is implied when told to crouch walk". IMO of those two options, its more straight forward and easier for the CT to just say 3 more syllables. I don't think asking a CT to be straight forward with his order is complicating anything. I just don't see the big deal about asking for a CT to simply add "no jumping" at the end of "crouch to pool".

 

 

It's the regulars that disobey this simple order just because they can. Again, this is a method at reducing the amount of unnecessary bitching that occurs on the server, I could care less if it makes the Ct's job a bit easier.

 

Which is sounding to me like you're referring to the regulars being smartasses with the orders given and trying to find loop holes. Example being what I used to do when the order was "line up at the bottom of the cell stairs" and I'd go under the stairs because it was technically the bottom. I did so with the understanding that I was likely to be shot, and if I was I didn't make a big deal out of it. Which is where I refer to what I said after getting AO in regards to this exact thing:

 

PB players the past year or so since I've been back have gotten really bad about screaming freekill or freeshot every time they get shot. If you try to get smart with the orders given, and get busted, don't be upset when you got shot. If you don't want to be shot or killed, then follow the orders given. Getting shot while trying to be smart with the orders given, is just a risk you have to take.

 

Idk. I haven't really played on the server at all since sometime in December. If simply asking CTs to tack on "no jumping" is as big of a hassle as you guys are trying to make it out to be, then fuck it have the AOs in charge change the stance back. I really couldn't care less. I still stand by the decision I made months back, but I really don't have much investment at this point if it stays that way. I'm just presenting the counter argument and explaining why the stance was changed and my personal thoughts on the matter since I was the one that ultimately changed it. I don't think its as big of a deal as its being made out to be, but really there's not much more for me to add to this conversation. If it stays that way, I think its best. If not, eh fuck it I don't care.

[ExRev]

As it currently stands, when you tell a T to crouch to pool, all you have to do to avoid them jumping if you don't want them to, is say "no jumping". Compared to if "no jumping" was in the rules you then have someone jump and get warning shot, and referred to the rules where it says "no jumping is implied when told to crouch walk". IMO of those two options, its more straight forward and easier for the CT to just say 3 more syllables. I don't think asking a CT to be straight forward with his order is complicating anything. I just don't see the big deal about asking for a CT to simply add "no jumping" at the end of "crouch to pool".

 

^ this is why (I feel) the rule should be "Follow the orders given" plain and simple. I'm not, and haven't ever, been saying we should have rules like "If this is said, this is implied". That would definitely be insane and our rules would rival those Encyclopedia sets that I'm sure most of our members have no clue what they even are.