TTT as it is now and Incentives

[All Ts]

From my perceptive it seems like people are using karma as a ranking system rather than what is what meant to be in the first place, a way to encourage people to play the game mode properly. Why don't we just cut to the chase and actually implement a real ranking system rather than using something like karma as a weak substitute for it, which it shouldn't have become in the first place.

 

I agree with you completely.

 

In addition to adding a proper ranking system, do you think it would be possible to make karma the way it was intended to be aka the way it was in GMod TTT? It used to start players off at 1000 karma, you would gain/lose karma for killing the right/wrong people, and every map change it would reset players back to 1000 karma. I've never been an advocate of permanent karma as I had a hunch it would turn into a way for people to stroke their e-peen.

 

I think making it so your score on the board still worked as Karma currently does, then adding something like GMOD TTT's karma that displays in chat would be a good idea. Our players are very attached to this whole ranking thing, and while it doesn't make a lot of sense for people on this thread it is a fact that many of our most active players love/chase the high score.

[angelo]

My thing with this is it’s really unforgiving towards new players that don’t dont quite have a grasp on the rules or how to play and even though the server and game mode may have been around for a long time we still have a decent amount of new people show up everyday to try the game mode.

Well that would then call for a karma cushion of 50 (Starting them off at 1050.) Any genuine players without intention of greifing/trolling starting off will probably learn the rules in a round or two in which they would gain their karma back quite quickly.

[Karma]

Well that would then call for a karma cushion of 50 (Starting them off at 1050.) Any genuine players without intention of greifing/trolling starting off will probably learn the rules in a round or two in which they would gain their karma back quite quickly.

 

The one problem I see about this is for people that care about pushing to max karma. For instance, some of the people I know best pushed for max karma as soon as the reset hit but sometimes couldn't avoid RDM. For instance, a new player joins the server, you see him kill two people so you kill him. Not only do you have the karma loss from the person you just killed, but also anything that happens after that, like a player trying to shoot you for killing an innocent. You kill him thinking he is a T. It could be taken as a "nuance" by a lot of regulars. That much of a karma loss is a big his for someone that cares about it.

 

The max karma being uncapped from 13337 in my opinion would be a good change. To counter the possible new system from becoming boring the karma should reset much more often (1-1.5 months) with store credit or name tag rewards to the people with the top 5 most karma to encourage less RDM even more. TTT will always be competitive and the removal of the RDM stat was enough to get rid of the RDMers trying to get to #1 RDM stat.

 

As for the rewards, I do think that is a great idea. The only problem I could see are name-tags. Chat is already a little hard to read with everyone typing and especially with the colored text, names, and tags. It could work if say it was a substitute with the set tag, but at that point someone could just set what the name-tag would say. I do feel the store credits are a really good idea because I hear people without sub or Vip complaining about the store prices. It would give them a chance to earn credits more proficiently and not have to buy Sub or Vip.

[Mad Dogg]

My only real issue with Karma is that you don't receive karma bans. I see people with less than 800 karma, almost borderline 500 karma. That's a lot of RDM unaccounted for. There's absolutely no reason why your Karma should fall below 900 unless you are being a sly little turd and tapping people when you shouldn't be. As for increase.. decrease.. I could care less what happens, but I agree with Liam.. it's being used in the wrong way currently and I've been watching people a lot more with less than 1k.

 

I will always be against adding automatic punishments of any kinds to our servers, especially to a game mode like TTT. Wawy explained it pretty well, the karma system can't tell if someone is baited into loosing karma or if someone is playing by the rules but doesn't play so seriously. I'd rather have our admins deal with the rule breakers since TTT is such a situational game mode.

 

Can we kill one bird with two stones here and turn the current karma system to match the gmod karma system, then use Game.me for those competitively driven players?

 

Game me ranking system isn't really suitable for TTT. It counts every kill RDM or legit to your score and it can't tell how well you actually play the game mode, as in do your job as inno/traitor/detective. I'd rather have some sort of system that actually counts what matters.

 

 

 

Now I have given this whole ranking system a lot of thought these couple of days. Now the karma system wasn't first meant to be a ranking system, but in a way it kind of works just fine as one and the players base seems to be enjoying it. It takes into account what you do right and what you do wrong and adds reduces points accordingly, just what I'd expect a TTT ranking system to do. As has been suggested we could increase the max karma and reset every one or two months or any other tweaks to further improve the system.

 

However, if someone was to come up with a better system then I'd be more that happy to give it a go.

 

As for the rewards, I won't promise anything but I'll see what we are able to do. Doing in-game tags is a no go since we have the chat tags for subscribers and clan tag is reserved for the TTT team tag[iNNOCENT/TRAITOR].

[tides]

As for the rewards, I won't promise anything but I'll see what we are able to do. Doing in-game tags is a no go since we have the chat tags for subscribers and clan tag is reserved for the TTT team tag[iNNOCENT/TRAITOR].

 

Is it not possible to have a set chat tag for non-subs as a reward that indicates an achievement related to TTT?

 

 

As for uncapping the max karma, after reading everyone's posts i'm still a bit against it. Having a cap on the amount of karma a player can reach adds that competitive edge that has been mentioned. Personally I enjoy the competition it presents and I can't say that if it was uncapped I would play anymore than I would if it stayed capped at 13337.

 

Just my personal opinion

[Zia]

Replying again to add on a suggestion about rewards that we could have for, let’s just say the first 3 people to reach max karma or maybe more, could get a reward of credits or maybe an ingame shop item for getting there first. I’m not sure if this is possible but I saw that we can’t do clan tags because they are needed for the roles and chat tags are already being used by subs and vips.

 

With the recent release of all these new shop items I feel like it would give players a good incentive to follow the rules and get there first to try and get some of the new items or at least some credits to help them get the ones they want

[Reece]

Could we just cap karma to just 1.5k or 2k and be done with it?

 

Karma shouldn't be an incentive at all, but just a security feature against mass rdmers.

 

And while we're at it, bring back the original -50 karma for killing another innocent as innocent and -100 for killing a detective, if you REALLY want an incentive for not rdming.

 

ttt worked fine without an incentive system anyway and I don't see a reason why we would need one.

 

Wanted to bump this thread, and want to point out something I think shouldn't be ignored. What @LargeAll said here makes a lot of sense and honestly I wouldn't be against this. Karma is there for another purpose, not for score. If we want to keep our incentive, we should add some other way to track rank. Karma is to show who's been RDMing and right now, if I decide to RDM with 11k karma, I wouldn't care whatsoever because in a few rounds I'll get that back and more.

[All Ts]

Wanted to bump this thread, and want to point out something I think shouldn't be ignored. What @LargeAll said here makes a lot of sense and honestly I wouldn't be against this. Karma is there for another purpose, not for score. If we want to keep our incentive, we should add some other way to track rank. Karma is to show who's been RDMing and right now, if I decide to RDM with 11k karma, I wouldn't care whatsoever because in a few rounds I'll get that back and more.

 

Karma should definitely not be capped until we have a substitute, so probably not until after we add the new plugin.

[DancingMoonLight]

@Reece brings a great point, as it stands now, the only people really affected/punished by the karma ranking system are newer players who don't quite have a grasp on the rules; while people with more karma can get away with it. On the flip side, perhaps we need more rewards for those who follow the rules; as it stands now the only reward for max karma is +1% damage, and to be honest it is a horrible reward for grinding to the cap.

[eden]

I've done a lot thinking and came to the conclusion that as nice as it would be having karma uncapped, karma shouldn't be used as a ranking system. Karma should be used solely to keep players in check and punish the players that break the rules. I think grinding to have a high karma sounds nice on paper because it would "promote" players to not break the rules ,but honestly it also has its negative impacts. In some way it does give a false sense of superiority over other players because they may think having higher karma means that they're playing the game properly. Just because a player has higher karma shouldn't mean they should go unpunished for rdming someone. I think the best way in approaching this problem would be reverting karma to its original state and implementing a new ranking system.

 

One new idea I had for a new ranking system was maybe adding the total amount of detectives and innos killed when you're a T + traitors killed as innos. If you end up killing an inno as another inno it would subtract from your total. I personally feel killing a detect as an T should give more points to your rank and killing a T as an Inno should also give more points. I'm sure there's a number that the majority can discuss or take a vote for. Essentially this idea would just be adding the amount of detectives, innos, and traitors killed when you are playing the appropriate role. Why not just add all the weird rankings like detectives killed and traitors killed together . This way the ranking system would reward players who play the most and play it properly. If we do use this system we could reward the top 10 ranked players every month or two.