[Rejected] TTT Time to kill

[LargeAll]

We all know that in CS GO, it could take almost instantly to 10 seconds to kill someone. While this fine in comp cs, it brings some trouble for regular ttt. In gmod ttt, traitors usually don't go around 1 shotting everyone, but rather has to be clever in choosing their targets or using various items/voice chat to trick other innocents.

 

While traitors picking who to kill and tricking people is still in cs ttt, it is not fully used and gone into as just the "rambo" type of traitors that simply kills everyone seems more effective. This is because of the main shooting mechanics of of csgo.

 

Traitors has two main advantages in killing innocents,

1. They get kevlar and/or awp, which makes them immune from getting one shotted

2. They get the first shot, which considering the time to kill in cs go, is a very big advantage.

 

Since innocents get no armor, they can be killed from weapons that could mass kill everyone, such like the p90. They have all the time in the world to prepare the perfect shot with any weapon, almost completely securing easy kills.

 

This problem also limits the effectiveness of old ttt traitor items. In a situation where killing a mass group of people is hard and you need to carefully pick your targets, wouldn't a good ol matchbox to hide proof of the bodies or m4a1s to help hide where you are shooting from be more useful? At this point, those items are next to useless since just gunning people down with an smg and kevlar is faster and more effective.

 

So what do I suggest? Give everyone kevlar by default and have the ak dmg reduced to 2 headshots to kill.

 

By doing this, the goal of a traitor focuses less on killing everyone in a rambo frenzy and more on careful tactics on choosing your target and avoiding detecting through the use of body burning, careful avoiding of crowds of innocents, picking off straglers, etc.

[MaR 1]

All the gun in a close /medium range one tap people.Giving armor to innocent will only make the game harder for traitor.The only advantage that the t have in a gun fight is the Kevlar so I don't think it a good idea to take that from them.I can understand the facts that the t have the first shot but a traitor have to fight sometime two innocent or more in the same fire fight.kevlar is the only way to make allow them to win a gunfight against two innocent since when your gonna start shooting at the first inno the second gonna turn around and try to shoot at you.I think the game is balance enough for both side since inno can stay with the detective or other inno that are proven and make the job harder for traitor. Choosing the perfect target is really hard since people can hear the gun shot and easily trying to kill you of sound.the matchbox is ,for me, pretty useless because it better to have a m4a1s so nobody hear the gun shot or armor so you can fight the other inno that saw you kill or hear you with an advantage on them.Even if the traitor get spotted, having the armor advantage will help them.like if all the innocent know that you are the t having a matchbox or a m4a1s is pretty useless.to finish, why do you think that it take 10 sec to kill someone.it only take less that 2 sec (less if it a one tap and you don't miss your spray control).the only time it gonna take you 10 sec is if you miss your shot /spray control .

 

 

 

Type with my phone sorry for the mistake.

[Ned]

What we can do is have an !menu item for innocents and make them spend at least 3 credits on kelvar if they really need it. The point of this game is to kill the innocents as quickly as you can. Other wise the game would be just long and boring like pb (no offense).

I agree with Mar1 the game is already balanced its how you wanna play as a traitor or innocent. I wouldn't mind a 2 headshot kill but a lot of people wouldn't agree on this, they would just complain and say its stupid. (my opinion)

[Greggy G]

Traitors has two main advantages in killing innocents,

1. They get kevlar and/or awp, which makes them immune from getting one shotted

2. They get the first shot, which considering the time to kill in cs go, is a very big advantage.

 

Since innocents get no armor, they can be killed from weapons that could mass kill everyone, such like the p90. They have all the time in the world to prepare the perfect shot with any weapon, almost completely securing easy kills.

 

This problem also limits the effectiveness of old ttt traitor items. In a situation where killing a mass group of people is hard and you need to carefully pick your targets, wouldn't a good ol matchbox to hide proof of the bodies or m4a1s to help hide where you are shooting from be more useful? At this point, those items are next to useless since just gunning people down with an smg and kevlar is faster and more effective.

 

lol they aren't useless at all. You have to take into account that everyone has their own style of playing, I always buy kevlar and then a radar and go from there because that's what i'm most comfortable with. I know a few players who buy the silenced M4 but not a lot of people don't because you can easily get one buying killing a detective so sometimes it can feel like a wasted credit. The matchbox is rarely ever used and that's why it is so damn good to use because no one ever suspects it.

 

So what do I suggest? Give everyone kevlar by default and have the ak dmg reduced to 2 headshots to kill.

 

By doing this, the goal of a traitor focuses less on killing everyone in a rambo frenzy and more on careful tactics on choosing your target and avoiding detecting through the use of body burning, careful avoiding of crowds of innocents, picking off straglers, etc.

 

So right away I'm going to say it. We wont be giving out kevlar as a default item and AK dmg will stay the same. The T's are supposed to have some sort of an advantage especially when there are almost twice as many Innos then T's. Kevlar is a item that the T's would have to decide if they want to use their credit on or not, if you can easily identify someone as a T and see that they have an awp or someone recently planted a bomb, then most likely that person doesn't have armor and they are on the same advantage level as you are. We shouldn't be minimizing the differences between T's and I's to make it more "fair" but instead the opposite. If we give more choices to the T's and more decisions to make on how to carry our their round then there is a greater and greater chance that T's would be buying other items rather then using their credits on Kevlar. Also the AK is a weapon any player can get, this just depends on luck when it comes to who can reach the gun faster then others and it can easily kill a T whether or not he has armor.

 

The T's already have to cooperate and work together well enough to plan out attacks together so that no Innos could get away. Imo and from my experience with TTT, as it is right now when it comes to strategy vs advantages like Kevlar, its pretty even.

[LargeAll]

What we can do is have an !menu item for innocents and make them spend at least 3 credits on kelvar if they really need it. The point of this game is to kill the innocents as quickly as you can. Other wise the game would be just long and boring like pb (no offense).

I agree with Mar1 the game is already balanced its how you wanna play as a traitor or innocent. I wouldn't mind a 2 headshot kill but a lot of people wouldn't agree on this, they would just complain and say its stupid. (my opinion)

 

The point of ttt is trickery!

 

In ttt, you should not win because you have kevlar, the other man doesn't, you have the first shot, the other person isn't even facing you, and you just kill him in 1-3 shots.

Ramboing and gunning people down shouldn't be a valid choice as a traitor for winning the round, but as a last ditch effort because failed to hide their identity.

[LargeAll]

lol they aren't useless at all. You have to take into account that everyone has their own style of playing, I always buy kevlar and then a radar and go from there because that's what i'm most comfortable with. I know a few players who buy the silenced M4 but not a lot of people don't because you can easily get one buying killing a detective so sometimes it can feel like a wasted credit. The matchbox is rarely ever used and that's why it is so damn good to use because no one ever suspects it.

 

the "because it's unexpected" excuse for balancing shouldn't be used when comparing a weapon to another. At this point in time, it is more effective to just buy kevlar and radar and commit mass genocide.

So right away I'm going to say it. We wont be giving out kevlar as a default item and AK dmg will stay the same. The T's are supposed to have some sort of an advantage especially when there are almost twice as many Innos then T's. Kevlar is a item that the T's would have to decide if they want to use their credit on or not, if you can easily identify someone as a T and see that they have an awp or someone recently planted a bomb, then most likely that person doesn't have armor and they are on the same advantage level as you are. We shouldn't be minimizing the differences between T's and I's to make it more "fair" but instead the opposite. If we give more choices to the T's and more decisions to make on how to carry our their round then there is a greater and greater chance that T's would be buying other items rather then using their credits on Kevlar. Also the AK is a weapon any player can get, this just depends on luck when it comes to who can reach the gun faster then others and it can easily kill a T whether or not he has armor.

 

Yes, but can you identify a T if they have a p90? An ak? An m4? Why do I say this? because they get the first shot. And like I said, considering the time to kill in cs go ranges from instant to 10 seconds, they could just land 1 headshot or 3 body shots, while you'll have to react to the traitor (depending on the situation, you might have to do a complete 180 and try to aim at him). No, just because you add more stuff for T's to buy, they won't buy different items. They're not robots randomly choosing different items, they use the most effective item for the situation. And because kevlar and radar is very powerful, they usually go for that.

 

Besides, giving every free kevlar still gives traitors somethings, an extra credit to spend! If they still want to become a rambo, they can still buy an awp or radar, while innocents have a bit of a better chance to kill them with their armor.

[Greggy G]

Besides, giving every free kevlar still gives traitors somethings, an extra credit to spend! If they still want to become a rambo, they can still buy an awp or radar, while innocents have a bit of a better chance to kill them with their armor.

 

Why would you want the T's to have an extra credit? If we did what you said, and gave everyone armor the new meta would be to buy an awp because now, instead of having T's decide whether or not they want to take the chance of buying an awp without armor is out of the question. The awp kills players with a body hit even if they do have armor and at this point this new meta would be way more overpowered then whatever it is right now (Which isnt so op).

 

Yes, but can you identify a T if they have a p90? An ak? An m4? Why do I say this? because they get the first shot. And like I said, considering the time to kill in cs go ranges from instant to 10 seconds, they could just land 1 headshot or 3 body shots, while you'll have to react to the traitor (depending on the situation, you might have to do a complete 180 and try to aim at him). No, just because you add more stuff for T's to buy, they won't buy different items. They're not robots randomly choosing different items, they use the most effective item for the situation. And because kevlar and radar is very powerful, they usually go for that.

 

So you say that traitors have the first shot and that's why they are so overpowered. That because they have this one factor on their side that the Inno's are obviously in a disadvantage right? Well have you considered the fact that when you play on TTT, Innos tend to stay together and work together to find information. Take any map, there is a usual/common area where most players (mix of both T's and Innos) are located in. If a T starts to attack then every single Inno would shoot and kill the T. Only if the T's are cooperative enough could they handle a situation like this and kill all of the Innos without losing. Yes, if you are alone and you go down a certain route on a map that players usually don't go through you have a very high chance of dying. Just like in MM, if your teammate is taken out and you are near them, you get the trade and kill the enemy before he manages to switch over to you. Right now this conversation is beginning to take sides on very specific situations that occur on TTT to try and back your point and mine, what needs to be addressed is that if we where to take the advice that you put in your first post, gave everyone armor and reduced damage to AK then the gamemode itself would become too evenly distributed between T's and I's and make it harder for T's to win when ultimately the point of the gamemode is for the T's to be at a slightly larger advantage over I's. Its always been this way, a reason to why detectives have the option to buy armor over Innos is because they are very important in deciding the fate of each round.

 

If every problem that is addressed the way this one is and has all of these complicated scenarios like what you said "And like I said, considering the time to kill in cs go ranges from instant to 10 seconds, they could just land 1 headshot or 3 body shots, while you'll have to react to the traitor (depending on the situation, you might have to do a complete 180 and try to aim at him)" then we would never have a specific solution for each problem. These "statistics" that you got out of thin air with no back up could not be looked at seriously as each round is different.

[Zia]

The point of ttt is trickery!

 

In ttt, you should not win because you have kevlar, the other man doesn't, you have the first shot, the other person isn't even facing you, and you just kill him in 1-3 shots.

Ramboing and gunning people down shouldn't be a valid choice as a traitor for winning the round, but as a last ditch effort because failed to hide their identity.

 

But the difference is that a traitor spent their credit on that kevlar. In that moment the kevlar is their advantage but like Greggy stated before, the innocents/detectives have the man power advantage. I don't know what situations you are bringing up where some pro player (besides eden ) is running around killing every single person solely based on the fact that they got armor.

 

the "because it's unexpected" excuse for balancing shouldn't be used when comparing a weapon to another. At this point in time, it is more effective to just buy kevlar and radar and commit mass genocide.

 

Yes but is it going to be brought up. Not often but enough so I know what to do, I will use teleporters and matchboxes. Though it may be "easier" to just by kevlar and a radar to just gun people down, where is your realism. What server are you talking about that every single T just buys armor and mows through all the innocents because they have armor? Not everyone is a professional player. Just because you have armor doesn't make you invincible. There are plenty of times where I spend my credits on kevlar and an awp/m4 and instantly get killed because I fucked up with my aim, or I messed up with my position. I can say comfortably that a very large portion of our players are not even higher than gold nova. Having said that, there are very few people on the server who are able to kill so many people that they instantly win the round..

 

 

Yes, but can you identify a T if they have a p90? An ak? An m4? Why do I say this? because they get the first shot. And like I said, considering the time to kill in cs go ranges from instant to 10 seconds, they could just land 1 headshot or 3 body shots, while you'll have to react to the traitor (depending on the situation, you might have to do a complete 180 and try to aim at him). No, just because you add more stuff for T's to buy, they won't buy different items. They're not robots randomly choosing different items, they use the most effective item for the situation. And because kevlar and radar is very powerful, they usually go for that.

 

Like I stated above, kevlar and a radar are not the only things you can buy, and stating that they are the most powerful items you can get is just an opinion. I see Ts spray down a couple people without armor, teleport behind them and then spray down the other people while they go to ID the bodies. That's pretty damn powerful and a very tactical play but I don't see teleporters getting removed. Just because something is used by many doesn't make it overpowered. If a T is with their team and they all decide to get armor and then spray everyone down, then well I guess that's a smart play. However I don't see that happening very often. Most of the time T's are by themselves and have armor because they get into a lot of situations where they are fighting multiple people at a time.

 

Besides, giving every free kevlar still gives traitors somethings, an extra credit to spend! If they still want to become a rambo, they can still buy an awp or radar, while innocents have a bit of a better chance to kill them with their armor.

 

Giving both all roles armor would not only make the game less balanced, but make it more innocent sided. Innocents/detectives have the man advantage, which is why the traitors get the item advantages. The balance of traitors vs. Inno/detective is supposed to be more on the side of traitors because if it wasn't, then they would never win. Also if you wanted it to be harder for the traitors to win, then why would you want them to have an extra credit AND armor in the beginning. Wouldn't that just make it easier for them?

 

The balance right now with only traitors and detectives having store items is fine. If we made it harder for the Ts to win it would most likely upset a lot of people. Csgo is not Gmod, and although I never played Gmod ttt, I believe that the csgo ttt server that we have right now is very well balanced. It may not be exactly the same but it's also not the same game. Suggesting that we leave things the way that they are as of now.

[Cept For Her]

I know I dont play TTT very much but I just wanted to put my thought on the matter here. You were saying that the Ts can easily come up behind and shoot the Innos in the back where they would have to quickly 180 to have a chance at living. While this is a true statement, it creates a skill base in the game, making you have to be aware of your surrounding like in competitive, ze, jb, etc. I think the argument here is not really about making it more fair for Innos to survive, but instead making the gamemode more balanced for newer, less skilled players like myself. I cant tell you how many times ive been gunned down because i missed shots as a T or i have bad reaction time as an Inno, but that all comes down to playing and getting better.

 

As for the Ts using items like the bomb and stuff. That again comes down to how YOU want to play as a T. Do you want to go all rambo like you said, or play sneakier and try to get some cheeky kills with a jihad. The problem isnt how the gamemode is set up, but rather how people tend to play it, so instead of suggesting changing the gamemode, you should try to educate people on the perks of using these other items. TTT is a gamemode of deception and skill, and people tend to do what everyone else does, so if people start using these other T items, then im sure youre going to see them start being used on a regular basis.

[Gator]

This problem also limits the effectiveness of old ttt traitor items. In a situation where killing a mass group of people is hard and you need to carefully pick your targets, wouldn't a good ol matchbox to hide proof of the bodies or m4a1s to help hide where you are shooting from be more useful? At this point, those items are next to useless since just gunning people down with an smg and kevlar is faster and more effective.

 

So what do I suggest? Give everyone kevlar by default and have the ak dmg reduced to 2 headshots to kill.

 

By doing this, the goal of a traitor focuses less on killing everyone in a rambo frenzy and more on careful tactics on choosing your target and avoiding detecting through the use of body burning, careful avoiding of crowds of innocents, picking off straglers, etc.

 

So you want to limit the options traitors have available? Defeats the point of the gamemode if we start limiting the options they have to do their objective. As it is always said, this is a situational gamemode and different situations require different tactics. If a T can kill a room of multiple people without a problem, they chose the correct tactic.