[Rejected] TTT Time to kill

[LargeAll]

So you want to limit the options traitors have available? Defeats the point of the gamemode if we start limiting the options they have to do their objective. As it is always said, this is a situational gamemode and different situations require different tactics. If a T can kill a room of multiple people without a problem, they chose the correct tactic.

 

The option to just be a rambo is strong enough already, and the fact that a T could just mow down a room full of people without a problem shows that we've strayed away from the focus of trickery that traitors could and should use to their advantage and be the main way traitors have a leg up over innocents and made ttt into a glorified deathmatch, except a few guys get armor + fancy items and gets to shoot first. It's not limiting options, it's just weakening an option that is more effective than others.

[Greggy G]

The option to just be a rambo is strong enough already, and the fact that a T could just mow down a room full of people without a problem shows that we've strayed away from the focus of trickery that traitors could and should use to their advantage and be the main way traitors have a leg up over innocents and made ttt into a glorified deathmatch, except a few guys get armor + fancy items and gets to shoot first. It's not limiting options, it's just weakening an option that is more effective than others.

 

Again... not only is this just super situational but it's just a really weak argument in the first place. I barely ever see over 4+ innos "get mowed down" very quickly and when I do its because the T knew how to play and knew exactly when the perfect time was to start shooting. Also you haven't taken into consideration how stupid some players could be and start killing their own teammates. There is no "problem" that is being described here that needs a fix. This is a very opinionated and on sided look on how TTT and you said it yourself "the option to just be a rambo." Yeah.. its an option, and usually, those who take the risk die and some get lucky and survive.

[WavY]

When the rank difference is so high on our servers, your gonna see Rambo plays no matter how many shots it takes to kill someone. Also, who are you to say that someone else’s enjoyment or viewpoints on TTT is to act like their lovely role mode Rambo or John Wick and go ape shit on everyone because they can? To me that’s a fun part of TTT but than again I always have the option to be more stragetic if I feel like it. My point is that I feel like we have a balanced system as it stands now but is not utilized to the stragetic side as much because honestly people are never coordinated as intended and see acting like Rambo more appealing, which would lead to more people staying in the long run.

[roux]

Alright, there's a lot of weird arguments here and there, but I understand where LargeAll is trying to get.

 

Let's stop romanticizing TTT; it is not what it used to be, at all. The argument "back in the gmod days" isn't really working anymore and TTT has become custom deathmatch. I've often thought about giving innocents kevlar w/out helmet and I couldn't reach to a proper conclusion. Unlike what Greggy thinks, you really do not need to "get lucky" to survive a 1v4, this is under-exaggerating it. I've played TTT like a crazy fuck this past month to get karma and let me tell you this: TTT is no longer about "strategy" and "who's the killer" anymore, not at all.

 

I hate to say this but TTT is far from being the roleplay it originally was and it's basically a deathmatch with rules . Anybody who masters the art of not aiming at the crotch will win if playing correctly. CS is an aim game, this is where it differs from Gmod. Back then, like LargeAll said, you'd encounter many servers with a variety of weapons and they'd all be nerfed/buffed to balance it out with the T weapons.

 

Where LargeAll is also right, is that T store is underwhelming, and I agree with that. I buy kevlar, radar, and I don't even know where to spend my credits at that point. Some maps are m4a1-s friendly, others aren't, same goes for the AWP. The rank disparity is so strong, 10 kills rounds aren't even impressive anymore.

 

However, I believe the gamemode is pretty balanced. The ratio is relatively correct, the rounds are, overall, 50/50 and the Ts aren't too much at a disadvantage. Is TTT perfect? No, ofc not. Is TTT dying? Maybe, cause of the way CS is made and meant to be played. Is there something needed to fix TTT at the moment? No, I don't think something affects the gameplay so much it would require a change.

[FLuiD]

Here's where I think your argument ultimately fails to see the full picture, and something @Roux also hit on. CSGO TTT is fundamentally different than Gmod and I have a real problem when changes are based in any way on "how it should be" because that's what it was like in Gmod. While, like in anything in life, it is important to at least acknowledge and make certain conclusions based on the successes and failures of Gmod TTT, you have to understand that at this point we've (other communities included) already molded the server from what works long ago and made our own variation, which for obvious reasons is highly influenced by the game the players have chosen to play. I'd be much more compelled if you had made the claim that kevlar will improve the overall balance in the gamemode, it makes it too competitve/not fun enough, and/or that it's simply too easy as a T rather than trying to say we should mimic another game that is vastly different from the one you're playing. To that point however, I would still disagree for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I think it's worth considering the fact TTT may already be quite balanced as is. When you say

the fact that a T could just mow down a room full of people without a problem

you vastly overstate the ability of a traitor in a situation such as this. Out of nature of the game mode, innos aren't just mindless apes who pay no attention what's going on. They're naturally vigilant given the entire point of the gamemode is either to kill everyone or survive the ensuing T's who you KNOW will try to kill you. A traitor should, and IS, able to kill a couple innos with a decent chance of living through it due to the ratio of T's to innos & detectives. If a t really is able to just walk into a room and demolish 4+ people without taking a bullet, it's a lot more reasonable to scrap it down to skill imo. In that situation, either the traitor is far superior to the average player or the innos are far worse than the average player, essentially two opposing extremes. Since they're the extremes, they're also therefore the minority and justifying major balance changes based on a few rather than the rest of a whole isn't very appealing. Nextly, I believe wholeheartedly traitors should be able to 1 tap with no problem. What happens when a bunch of people group up or follow a detective and you aren't that extreme variation of the player mentioned above? Three-four different things are the likely choices,

 

1) You decide to buy something in the T menu that would make your life easier like a C4, Jihad, mine, etc. which promotes diversity and unique gameplay opportunities (obviously a desired outcome)

2) You take your time and strategically remove people 1 by 1 with one taps, maneuvering your away around as to avoid getting targeted by 30 million innos at once (maybe buy an m4a1-s to make that easier?) or

3) You coordinate an effort with your t buddies and start spraying or tapping at the same time and cause mass confusion

 

If you were to add kevlar, you essentially limit the possibility of certain choices and reduce the options available to a traitor outside being forced to buy an item (which you may not have the credits for). Lastly, I would like to argue against the idea that kevlar (or a lack thereof) is the driving force of over-competitiveness, despite this argument being the most appealing imo. The reason I believe this to be false is that before the karma update, I think generally the game mode was FAR less rambo-esque and fuctioned like less of a DM server. During that time period we didn't have armor though, so I fail to see the correlation. I think you would be more effective in discussing changes to the karma system and providing less incentive to kill as many people as possible if you think that would improve the experience. But EVEN in that claim I fail to see the validity given the popularity following the karma update. While it is a diffent TTT then the one known prior, we should be more focused on what the players want as opposed to what the ideal gamemode of a single person would look like.