[Answered] TTT as it is now 2.0

[eden]

Since the TTT karma race has died down and I've gotten some time to chill, I decided to talk about TTT currently and whats to become of it in the future. With a bunch of people recently posting suggestion for TTT it really got me thinking about the game as a whole. I think its fair to say I know the game in and out with my amount of hours and I've gotten to create/learn the so to say "meta" of the game.

 

As of right now the current meta of the game is to buy armor/kevlar in the beginning regardless of whether you're T or detective. This item is just broken at the moment and its just way too good to pass up. Now I understand some people will say that its situational but im speaking in general 9/10 times you're gonna end up buying Kevlar because of the amount of perks that come with it. I think its important for people to also understand that csgo is not like gmod, this game rewards skillful aiming WAY more than playing "sneaky" and deceitful. The way I go around playing TTT recently has been nothing short of un-creative, I buy armor and the closest person I see gets the trigger finger. The reason I can get away with this isn't because i'm a genius at being sneaky,but because my mechanical skill most of the time will bail me out in messy situations. Which then brings me to my point about how unbalanced the game is currently especially for innos. I don't wanna sound cocky or full of myself but if I get roux, mar 1, tides, and or any good regular aimer on TTT on my team, were bound to win 75% of the time. It's not because were amazing at TTT, its because were good at CSGO (aiming) that allows us to win t rounds most of the time. This game mode should cater to players that are good at TTT, not at CSGO.

 

I think its time for TTT to have a somewhat big change and the proposition/suggestion I've came up with is that inno's should spawn with kevlar (not head armor though). Detectives and Traitors would both automatically spawn with Kevlar and head armor allowing them to purchase items that actually cater to playing the game mode (tasers, silencers, health stations, golden knifes, and maybe even teleporters for T's). This change would still reward players that are good at aiming and would balance the current overall play of being an inno. I think the amount of creativity that T's could come up with ,if inno's got kevlar would really change how the game is being played atm which in my opinion is very stale. Currently, there are too many items in the T-Store that are just pretty much useless (matchbox, teleporters, mines) because there are other items that are just far superior. With this one change I think it could tackle all these talks about how certain items are useless. Mowing down innos would be harder forcing players to play sneaky and smart meaning purchasing items like teleporters, mines, and golden knifes would be much more viable.

 

The fact that an smg is better than an ak/m4 in many close quarter situation makes me question the balancing of the game. Similar to what I read in @LargeAll suggestion thread it legit takes 1-2 seconds to mow an inno down with any smg. This is just way too fast and the fact that a T can get away with killing 4 innos in a room by himself is just plain stupid. I also understand everyone has different "styles" of playing TTT ,but if the style of just mowing down everyone and getting away with it is your best option in winning, then somethings wrong. I think all styles of playing TTT should be EQUALLY viable and currently I can say from experience that its not 100% equal atm.

 

As of right now, I think its important to nerf the csgo mechanics of the game and start buffing players who are good at playing the game mode "ttt". I think it wouldn't hurt to do a test run on giving innos kevlar and T's/Detective kevlar+head armor and seeing how it would affect the overall gameplay of TTT. Some kind of change is needed in my opinion to start balancing the game mode a bit because in all honesty its not balanced atm.

 

Huge shoutout to @Roux who helped think of this idea

 

Also a huge thank you to whoever took the time to read all of this and feel free to leave your own ideas, thoughts, and concerns

[Exk]

I don't think this is "the" solution to csgo TTT returning towards it's original gameplay, but I do think it's a good start.

Pros:

-Loss of aim-punch gives innocents a little more of a chance when a T takes a one v one, making it even more important for the T to decide when to pull the trigger.

-No head-armor innocents doesn't nerf any of the weapons extremely since there wouldn't be the annoying dink that prevents 1 shotting in the head.

-As referenced, more incentive to buy other items from the shop rather than immediately using the first credit on kevlar. In csgo, Kevlar is a game changer no matter the skill level. It's a massive advantage that would be ludicrous to forego tbh.

-Not a massive shift in balance since T's still have the ability to 1 shot people in the head, advantage of knowledge (being able to take the first shot), and now the perk of being able to use other helpful items over kevlar.

 

Cons:

-A big downside in my head (more towards community reaction rather than game play) is that it shifts the focus towards headshots. Perhaps the biggest complaint on our servers is hit reg. Honestly, 99% of the time I don't find it bad at all. I'm blessed with extremely good ping though, and a high spec computer that already runs csgo optimally. Even then, there are certain times where I think to myself "there's no way I didn't hit that." My style is body spraying though. I don't go for fancy headshot flicks, I body spray and transfer which our "bad hitreg" generally favors more. This shift of armor availability would make it more beneficial to aim for headshots, which could bring about more frustration when the game "fails to reg" the shot. Honestly though, this isn't necessarily a huge con since referring back to a pro, it would shift the game style more towards a logical approach to killing instead of just taking fights instantly.

-Delaying. T's may be more inclined to delay since the innocents have a even better chance at surviving now than before. Teamwork and cohesion in terms of riddling down the numbers contributes towards the win, and if a T finds himself in a 1v5+ and isn't a great, mechanically skilled player, he may be even more scared to take fights. Of course delaying against the rules, but the psychology behind players isn't something so easily changed. Everyone wants to win, and some players just may struggle with this gained advantage.

 

Overall though, I'm for trying this option out. I think it would be interesting to see how this element could shift our game mode.

[roux]

I've had a few days to think bout it since no-lifing the karma race, and I've had a lengthy discussion with eden regarding this specific, yet server-wide issue.

 

Do not worry, we're not calling TTT dead or anything (since every bit of criticism directed to TTT seems to be taken that way, leading to defensive and pointless argumentation) but the gamemode is weak, very weak.

 

The state of TTT isn't was it used to be. Repeating myself from LargeAll's post, I believe that the CS part of the server is overwhelming and that TTT has turned into "who has the best aim and reflexes", without exaggerating. The meta is indeed kevlar - ofc, a great part still go for the awp/m4a1s or even fucking tasers - and it is WAY to good of an item to not buy. The idea of giving kevlar to innocents has been suggested and repealed in the past, but I've yet to come to a clear argument of why we shouldn't give innocents normal kevlar. Having thoroughly thought about it with eden, I think it'd be worth trying on our server. Having kevlar doesn't make you simply tankier, but it gives you a chance to fight back an enemy that aims for the body, whereas you have the second shot. The aimpunch reduction can greatly change the course of a firefight, a fraction of a second is saved trying to recover your aim to actually hitting the opponent once or twice. This increases the strategy and skill required to be a successful T.

 

The solution isn't absolute and we're far from revolutionizing the gamemode, but I think it'd be a good thing to think about to make the server somewhat closer to TTT, and not customized deathmatch. It isn't a coincidence that the top TTT players are "Rambos", because the best strategy is to "rambo" innocents.

 

We've also thought about pimping the T store. Many have brought up arguments like "but the fact that you don't expect a T buying it makes it great". Even if I don't expect my opponent buying a Negev without armour on a second round in mm, it's not suddenly a "great" move, or beneficial in anyway. The matchbox is stupidly underused because it has the same cost that a full body armor has, and in a real situation, nobody but trolls have time to use it correctly to its full extent. We used to have death stations, fake bodies, one-hit silenced pistols, etc. that required strategy and fine gameplay to win, since gmod wasn't centered on aiming. This may be another thing to think about, as armor isn't the only thing to be changed, in my opinion.

 

Shoutout to adon for making this delicious post, I really think this is a step in the right direction.

[Nate S]

Possibly allow innos and detectives to spawn with head armour and Kevlar, and mandate that TS either buy it or live without it, I also believe that a large part of try is engaged of spawns, who spawns next to you, and if the people around you act in a certain way, I agree with you completely and feel as if one hit headshots need to be removed, and more lying and deceit should be favoured more than @eden coming in with an ak and mowing everyone down in a solid 6 seconds

[Here comes dat chin]

I agree 100% with eden's post.

 

200iq strats are too hard to use when you can just pop someone in the head or get shot yourself. No point in effectively lying or blaming it on others or using false KOSs(as a T) when you can just mow down innocents. There's no point in using your powers of deduction when eden's just gonna come on in and one-tap you.

[roux]

Possibly allow innos and detectives to spawn with head armour and Kevlar, and mandate that TS either buy it or live without it, I also believe that a large part of try is engaged of spawns, who spawns next to you, and if the people around you act in a certain way, I agree with you completely and feel as if one hit headshots need to be removed, and more lying and deceit should be favoured more than @eden coming in with an ak and mowing everyone down in a solid 6 seconds

 

Giving people head armor wouldn't change a single thing to eden mowing your ass with an ak, they 1 hit.It's also been discussed to nea. It'd be totally unbalanced to remove T armour too. We suggested giving KEVLAR to all, head armor to detectives, which would also be a buyable for Ts, possibly.

[Nate S]

It would remove the effectiveness of m4a1s and m4a4s, I was just suggesting for innos, and detectives to get armour free, and like you said, head armour for detectives, and I figure a fun thing might be offering heavyrmour for like 4 credits, it would need to be balanced, but it could be great for trying to tank hits. T armour should always be buyable, but I would recommend not letting ts buy head armour so detectives m4a1s, augs, and many other guns which those of us who haven't memorized the maps get one tap the ts. Though this would minimalize the effectiveness of ttt skill I believe it would balance the use of the flick one taps and spray downs strat because they could be countered by the innos, and detectives, also known as the people who aren't aim punched and can immediately fire back.

[Exk]

In regards to the heavy armor suggestion: by the time anybody has 4 credits in a TTT round, traitor or detective, the round will effectively be close to an end. Heavy Armor in csgo was a cool concept but it was never practical since it drastically slows down the user's movement speed. Along with that, it was limited to no rifles, only heavies and SMGs. It might be a nice one off to just give an event where T's are heavy armored with a movement speed buff, but I can't see it being a practical implement.

[Karma]

I am up for trying this, but I see one thing that could be a toss-up, the armor on innocents. While I do think it is a great idea, it might not be to the rest of the server. A lot of times I see players that are not as aim based and have a harder time killing. Especially when it comes down to situations like a big crowd of innocents. With that said I don't think it would change much for our regulars, to be honest I don't think many of them would even notice it was added.

 

Now for what eden said about removing items like matchboxes and mines. While I don't think they are used as often as they should be; I'm not for removing them. First, mines are very useful on smaller maps, and if used right can easily decide a round. They tend to be used by our more experienced players as most players don't know the command, or just don't want to type the whole thing out to place one mine. Second,matchboxes are rarely used. Maybe players don't know what they do or they just don't prefer to use them. But with that said I have seen a lot of Regs use them and it worked out in their favor. If you use them right know one should know you used them in the first place.

[Eskomo]

I think you're exaggerating the OP-ness of the traitors. Currently the win rates for innocents sits at around 60-65% (not 100% sure if this is accurate, taken from stats page) among most maps. The question TTT needs to answer is whether you want this win rate to be higher or lower. Obviously giving innocents body armour will increase their win rate by some unknown amount, and there is probably some value in testing what this increase would be as you suggested.

 

But your argument that the traitors are almost guaranteed a win when a bunch of good players are selected is kind of meaningless. When the traitors are full of good aimers they should be winning most of the time, and they will continue to even if innocents have body armour. If you try to balance the server based on the few times the traitors are stacked with professional gamers, the rest of the server will suffer. Think of the other alternative when the Traitors have average/bad players picked, giving innocents armour will really hurt their win percentage as those players will now have another disadvantage thrown at them.