Forcing T's to play a death game

[Cept For Her]

Hypothetically speaking if we add forces deathgames the CT’s will probably abuse it at the beginning of the round preventing people who like rebelling(me) a lesser chance at it. Some of the populist desthgame is fish in a barrel and if the CT’s send the T’s to iso more than half of them will get killed and the ones that want to rebel will be dead or have a tougher chance at doing so

 

Pretty much agree that the CTs would abuse it to "freekill" so to say, in the way that its technically not freekilling but they are farming kills by playing deathgames that allow them to kill people. An example would be a discussion about four corners on summer jail and CTs being allowed to kill them in water or not (which youre not allowed to since theyre not rebelling, the game kills them itself.) Overall I think people just need to give less freedays, meaning learn how to be better CTs, and make it so freedays are rewards for people doing things like deathgames and not just something they give out when they dont feel like giving orders

[Virtious]

Yes because people that play on the servers like to play maps that have no creativity put into it, maps that looks like my 5 year old cousin drew with basic things like pool soccer, there are plenty of maps out there that give plenty of chances to rebel with deathgames, it’s just that people here like to abuse the shitty CT’s on maps like razor and just keep wiping them. It’s already easy enough to rebel on our servers adding deathgames would create more balance, but too many people would cry about it because it makes there play style a little harder if even that.

[All Ts]

I tried my best to explain this at the meeting but our server is simply more rebelling oriented than about these MG style maps with deathgames everywhere, which often contain few secrets and places to send prisoners (medic, soccer, pool, bigcage, vip, kitchen, disco). Somewhere along the lines from CS:S to CS:GO other servers went to this super deathgame style due to the direction of maps, plugins, and slowly did away with simple games like trivia, simon says, and first/last reaction. Another big difference that has been realized is that the current playerbase tends to abuse loopholes in the plugins or server rules to a far bigger extent then before.

 

The truth is that people who come on our server and stay I like to equate to the type of players who like figuring out all the little secrets of a ZE map or like the semi-competitive edge that our kill-heavy Jailbreak provides. A lot of the changes we've put out has attempted to make CT side a little bit more uniform to avoid them getting wiped every round, which from observation has worked. Our server also gives a lot more freedom to the CT's, to the Ts, and leaves very little room for abuse- this is the complete opposite of what forced deathgames are by nature. The servers staple is this deathmatch where maps like Razor, VIP, Spy Vs. Spy, Lego, Moonjail, and other secret heavy maps are very popular. If you want a more balanced list of maps I'd say maps like Spacejail, Moonjail, Spy Vs. Spy are better for that than maps like Razor, VIP, or Lego. I want to bring JB back to this roleplay type deathmatch, incorporate some plugins to mitigate issues/spice it up, build on the community we have, and encourage more of these style maps from the JB community in general. In the past we've discussed making a second JB second that plays differently but as it stands we're going to continue with the niche we find most fun, then maybe someday we can go ahead with something like that.

 

We're far more open to aligning ourselves with some of the other servers now then with past managers, but the truth is that a lot of the things these others servers have do not follow what we consider to be fun or what historically nor currently our community has found fun.

 

These are things like:

 

• Long rounds
  
• Long mute times
  
• Oppressive CTs
  
• Ratio Freedays
  
• Microphone Requirements
  
• Bad maps
  
• Silly rules
  
• AFK Freeze
  
• Wardays
  
• Pay for admin
  
• Super high slot size
  
• Plugins that say whos rebelling
  
• Forced deathgames
  
• Warden
  

 

All of these things are subject to change obviously, but they are just examples of things other servers might have but that we don't find fun. There are plenty of things I've discussed with @Dominic recently where we have considered changing things that have really not been popular around here, but we would never consider doing those things without thinking far, far ahead. If you guys provide suggestions that are fleshed out, provided with details, with reasons and specific numbers we can look into anything you want. Unless a suggestion like Forced Deathgames hits on all of those points and has logic we can agree with we will probably never consider adding it cause all of avenues and little things that have been added to make it work in the past have absolutely not worked, some made it much worse.

 

Hope this answers any questions you guys have about this and why things like it are treated as such, there are plenty of past threads about this here and here where you can read about what we've tried.

[Shime]

I was playing when there were about 20-30 people and only 2 (including me) decided to play a death game. You think 2 is enough to play a game?

[Shime]

I just wan't to bring up the fact that no one or very few people will wan't to play a death game, but having it as an option helps them decide whether they wan't a death game or not. I don't think people will like this rule change you are suggesting because it messes up the play style of a lot of people including me, Creten(my partner in crime) and many others. It is a good idea, but the point of you saying that maps have death games for a reason is no bueno, because it is an option the ct has to make to ask the ts to do a death game (it is not there to be forced). If you go into game and type in chat "!rules" it explains why death games are not forced in a better way than I just did. For your second point, I do agree with you that very few people play death games willingly. It is because they don't see it fun to participate in a forced experience. Many people playing death games against their will may seem fun to you, but not to many others.

 

Yes of course the purpose of jailbreak is for the T’s to rebel and win, but if you’re just gonna stay in one spot instead of moving around to play games (which most of would kill you) how are you suppose to rebel? You can’t do that if you’re staying in one spot. It’s always a freeday anyways so that’s why it’s so easy to rebel.

[Shime]

We had tried deathgames before and it ultimately didn’t fit into the type of play style most people on our server have. I’d said a majority of players on our servers are the type to rebel, which is why forced deathgames would disrupt the flow of the game. We had talked about it in the meeting and @All Ts and @Dominic agreed it hurts more than it helps. Setting up deathgames does take a long time, and delays more than people think. Now to the point about maps having deathgames for a reason. If you were to take a look at our 3 most popular maps: Revamp, Razor, and VIP, the amount of working deathgames within those 3 equate to 1 I believe unless you count race? Don’t remember if it kills you or if the cts have to kill you. (jump rope on vip, others are broke). That should be a good indicator as to why we shouldn’t have forced deathgames and should let the ts decide if they want to participate. Just my thoughts correct me if I’m wrong on those statements.

 

What type of play style? Rebelling? You’re suppose to do that anyways. Also playing a death game won’t ruin many play styles because you would be moving around the map so often that you can sometimes easily slip past outside of the group to rebel. However if you’re just staying in one spot playing a freeday in soccer then it’s practically impossible to rebel.

[Shime]

The first point to make is we have tried the best version we could dream up of forced death games with our server before and it didn't work out at all. It never achieved the purpose it was added for, and it was usually abused by CTs who just want a stat boost. For forced deathgames to even come close to working with SG JB, we had to add tons of extra rules, which is hard for everyone to remember and makes the server harder to come into as a new player. Overall the community we have likes rebelling more than they like getting killed off by forced deathgames, so it was removed shorty after it was implemented.

 

Another point to make is that we have the LR plugin to slim down round times for the stickler Ts who don't like rebelling or are waiting too long to do so, if your goal is to shorten round time then I'd suggest that you dream up and suggest changes to that plugin instead.

 

Since you mentioned no one wants to play death games, I want to expand on it. If no one wants to play death games, why would we force our players to do it? The majority of the server usually doesn't like playing deathgames because they like rebelling, so theres really no valid reason for us to force them to play deathgames. People wouldn't like the gameplay and it would lead to less population.

 

To your point about maps, the managers of this server have always tried to avoid maps full of heavy deathgames for that exact reason, it doesn't work with our server. To reiterate @Casual's point, the maps that are most popular on our server have a lot of places to go like pool, soccer, disco, vip, etc, which is what works the best with our server. Our JB server is based around deathmatchy, T sided maps with tons of secrets.

 

P.S : Removing collision will probably never happen.

 

If a CT abuses it then they should be ban to be a CT for a limited time and only play as T to learn the rules. Even then there should be basic rules such as killing only 50% of the players alive which is a pretty common rule is most servers. Plus if you’re playing as a CT then you should always be aware of the rules and try to follow them, if you break them it should be your fault anyways.

[Shime]

Hypothetically speaking if we add forces deathgames the CT’s will probably abuse it at the beginning of the round preventing people who like rebelling(me) a lesser chance at it. One popular desthgame is fish in a barrel and if the CT’s send the T’s to iso more than half of them will get killed and the ones that want to rebel will be dead or have a tougher chance at doing so

 

Like I said before, CT’s should not be abusing deathgames because that’s free killing and against the rules. It’s also not very hard to survive most deathgames but to also rebel, in fact if your moving around the map to play deathgames it would be a lot more easier to rebel than having a freeday at the pool or disco.