Unreasonable orders

[Trevis]

Now I understand there is a lot to say about this topic but I think the main discussion should focus on rather than punishing people for giving them, simply make the less harsh orders like face the back of your cell and freeze be forced to repeat themselves when giving out warning shots. In a standard scenario you could have someone simply shoot someone for not following the original order, then repeat the order so they can stay alive and fix their actions. I understand there are harsher orders that don't have fairness to them should have punishment, and that should stay, but if its a small order that isn't that complicated I think the only requirement is to repeat your orders after warning shots are given.

[Ender]

I'm not incredibly sure about forcing a CT to repeat, however there definitely is a problem with CTs giving orders either too softly, and/or while someone else is speaking. Obviously, with a server with 45 people on, getting a chance to speak while no one else is is practically impossible, however I do think that adding the word "clear" into the 2nd rule of CTs under the rules thread would be helpful.

 

old rule: CTs must give reasonable orders and shouldn't repeat the same orders often.

 

new rule: CTs must give clear, reasonable orders and shouldn't repeat the same orders often.

[thump]

JB gets toxic and not fun for people that are new to it when there are CTs that will spam to get FO just to give extremely complicated orders and not repeat them for anyone. I see a lot of CTs giving orders that are purposefully given to confuse the Ts so they can warning shot them then kill them for not following the order without repeating it for them. Also, seeing CTs give orders just to change their mind mid order and make the Ts do something else which can confuse a lot of people. I agree with what Enderspine said about changing the rule to force CTs to give clear orders so that all the Ts can understand and not have people give orders such as, "Take one step out of your cell, face south west, crouch, and freeze." They also say those types of orders very fast and it can be hard to hear exactly what they're saying. It's a problem that I think could be easily fixed with the addition of that rule, but I feel like some people would still try to give complicated orders after a rule like this is implicated just so they could boost their KD.

[Soul]

• Reasonable Orders - an order that is straightforward, clear, to the point, easy to understand, not meant to confuse or trick, and gives the prisoners enough time to follow.

(here)

 

If the CTs must give reasonable orders, it includes that the CTs have to give clear orders because a reasonable order has to be clear and not meant to trick the Ts. I think that there is no need to change the rule. It's already good. like that.

[Trevis]

(here)

 

I think that there is no need to change the rule. It's already good. like that.

I'm simply saying how there should be either a new rule or a different way to punish these orders.

[Dong]

I’ve noticed that this is an issue when it comes to the entire CT team. Multiple times the order will be “when cell doors open face the back of your cell, crouch, and freeze.” Which means that terrorists who take a step out can be warning shot for not following orders. However, when this order is given only once, the CTs won’t even know the correct order. Multiple people are freeshot because not just the Ts but the CTs also didn’t pay attention. If you’re going to give an order your CTs should probably also understand what the order is. I guess CTs are in their right to say it once but when the other CTs don’t even understand the order, it should be considered some type of unreasonable order if not repeated.

[Soul]

• Reasonable Orders - an order that is straightforward, clear, to the point, easy to understand, not meant to confuse or trick, and gives the prisoners enough time to follow.

 

For me, the order “When cell doors open face the back of your cell, crouch, and freeze.” is an unreasonable order because it's clearly meant to trick the Ts that didn't pay attention. But to help the situation, in this case, I think that we should add a rule where the CT has to repeat his order at least 3 times so the T's and the CT's don't get confused.

[Lokibelowkey]

• Reasonable Orders - an order that is straightforward, clear, to the point, easy to understand, not meant to confuse or trick, and gives the prisoners enough time to follow.

 

For me, the order “When cell doors open face the back of your cell, crouch, and freeze.” is an unreasonable order because it's clearly meant to trick the Ts that didn't pay attention. But to help the situation, in this case, I think that we should add a rule where the CT has to repeat his order at least 3 times so the T's and the CT's don't get confused.

 

ok, how would they make it more straight forward it isn't the CT's fault people got used to an order so when they give a similar order people don't fully listen and don't do it. It seems unfair to limit what orders they can and cannot give especially if the person doesn't have ill intent.

[Fieldz]

• Reasonable Orders - an order that is straightforward, clear, to the point, easy to understand, not meant to confuse or trick, and gives the prisoners enough time to follow.

 

For me, the order “When cell doors open face the back of your cell, crouch, and freeze.” is an unreasonable order because it's clearly meant to trick the Ts that didn't pay attention. But to help the situation, in this case, I think that we should add a rule where the CT has to repeat his order at least 3 times so the T's and the CT's don't get confused.

 

ok, how would they make it more straight forward it isn't the CT's fault people got used to an order so when they give a similar order people don't fully listen and don't do it. It seems unfair to limit what orders they can and cannot give especially if the person doesn't have ill intent.

 

Agree with Loki here. Just because Ts are used to certain orders, doesn't mean that if it's different than the regular "One Step Out Face The Back and Freeze" it's declared unreasonable. I don't think that an order automatically has to be repeated 3 times because if a T doesn't hear it the 2nd time, unless people are being loud, they need to turn the volume up or getting a fucking hearing aid lmao.

[Lokibelowkey]

Because this doesn't have much traction I'm just gonna agruebfor both sides .

 

There is definitely an agruement to be made that what they are doing is an unreasonable order from having dealt with that in game and conversing with @ShadoTheLunatic about it. They are using the pre established order to have the T's to not follow the order intending to trick them and rack up kills. But there is a big problem with this, the fact that it is completely base off of intent, if someone has the intent to trick the T's with that order it is inherently a unreasonable but if someone is just using that order in order to keep them inside of their cells it is nolonger a unreasonable order. It may still confused the T's but it is unintentional.

 

This creates the problem with talking about the unreasonable order rule is because it is based off of the situation whether someone is intentionally confusing the T's or just giving the orders and the T's are just not listening fully. This is where admin discretion comes into play where they will assess the situation and acts accordingly especially either the reasonable word being up to interpretation along with what is intentionally confusing the T's it is hard to set a precedent.

 

So just leave it up to the admin on the server/ doing the palyer complaint.

 

If you disagree or want to add please respond.