HOT TAKE - Blatant Disobey

[BluESandwicH]

Hello. apologize for the wall of text but i feel it will be extremely beneficial to the JB server. (mostly just me)

 

A Brief synopsis of what i will be talking about

In Jail Break (JB) a CT will give an Order that all the Terrorists must follow. if they do not follow the order that is disobeying. you are allowed to kill a Terrorist for disobeying but only after you give them a warning shot (1-99 Health Points) and reasonable time to rejoin his other Terrorists. A exception to this rule is named 'Blatant Disobey' and that is the topic of this post.

 

To narrow it down i would like to know what it means to 'Blatantly Disobey'

I personally have run into many issues with this. i am not naming names because its not the admins fault the rules are vague and misleading.

I have been banned(x1), Swapped(x2) and Slayed(x1) for killing people IN MY OPINION where blatantly disobeying

 

I would like in this post to

1) Define Blatant Disobey

2) Try and not have people hate me

 

 

1) I believe as a community we need to define Blatant

Blatant is a confusing word in this context, Does it mean how bad your disobeying or how fast you are doing it or how far away you are from the order.

because i always thought it was how far away you are let me explain

 

When i first joined the JB (JailBreak) server i had played JB (JailBreak) before and joined CT Right away probably not the best decision but that is besides the point,it was electric and it was a free day, i was told by a player i can not recall who that "Free day no past first cell, if they cross fountain they are KOS" which was my thoughts on what Blatant ment 'how far away from the prescribed order are the terrorists'

 

1a) that is where the problem arises different admins have told me different things lets use my miss fortune as an example...

 

 

I was banned on 1/8/2019 for FreeKilling - or killing T's without warning shots. This is no fault of the admin like i said the rules are vague and different admins have told me different things.

 

Multiple times on this very forum and in-game by every admin i have met have said that a baseline for blatant disobey on ba_jail_electric_razor_go is First Cell, To fountain. in other words if first cell is the order fountain is the blatant(KOS) zone. That is where the good news ends because that seems to be the only Set in Stone reminder of what blatant actually means

 

On ba_jail_electric_razor_go(the version SG uses)

From first cell to fountain it is 512 Source Units, (Source units are how the engine measures distance as appose to Inches or Centimeters. for context the player is 64 Units Tall or around 6.3 Feet)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19024[/ATTACH]

 

in this picture on the Top right wire frame - Birds eye view it is 512 Units. From the furthest point of the fountains model to first cell door is 512 Source Units

*side note this is just the default models and wire frame cause i was too lazy too go download every file in the map just for this, if you know what your looking at you can tell enough i have Model Ends marked so the little point behind where the South most point on the line ends is another point for the end of the fountain

*side note of a side note on the 3D Cam - top left you can see a green coroner that is the balcony cross supply those angles down to the main floor and that about where first cell is also you can see isolation and sauna

 

 

Now onto jb_sg_dojo_v5-6 - Where my 'free killing' is

 

*side note, i am making a rough estimate from the video on my ban. and the video of an incident that accrued today (1/9/2019) where i killed 6-7 people for blatantly disobeying and was 'attacked' by the majority of the server including two admins. then was slayed and swapped where i gave a now somewhat 'controversial order' and that incident is was is forcing me to make this post

 

 

From the bottom of cobblestone stairs (near tower climb) for reference to the left turn toward tower climb - NOT ACCOUNTING FOR ELEVATION

Is 320 Source Units

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19025[/ATTACH]

 

From the top of cobblestone stairs after taking the left turn is 1216 Units

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19026[/ATTACH]

 

So 1536 Units(not accounting for the elevation on the stairs), is a ban-able 'free kill'

But 512 Units is by admins and players considered to be the baseline for what Blatantly Disobeying means,

 

You should never complain about problems unless you have a solution. i think no 'one' person can actually have one.

I do not want to purpose 512 Units because on some maps that might be too little. or the fact that every-time someone says "he was blatant", you need to whip out SDK and measure it. if we decide to remove the blatant disobey all together. To be honest i do not have an answer and i am sorry as the inciting incident of this conversation was Me i should really know what to do but i just don't. i want people to use there judgement and be reasonable and maybe everyone disagrees with me... but using my judgement and being Worlds more lenient then a baseline set by the community and being punished for it is absurd.

 

 

2) Hey this is me i am a human these are my thoughts i have made mistakes i will make mistakes.

i don't want to be banned anymore for things like this. and i do not want anyone else ridiculed for 'Mass Free Kill' when they use there judgement and have evidence to back themselves up.

 

and example, i was sitting in Team Speak alone in the JB server. a Guy joins - i was not tabbed into Team Speak i do not know who it was and he just said "sup free-killing faggot"

and left. i do not want that to happen to other people who try there best to follow the rules. but sometimes in the eyes of the other team or admins do not.

 

 

Thanks, Blu

[delirium]

• Blatantly Disobeying - when prisoners act in a way that would make you lose track of them, and overall makes your job as a CT harder because you have to shift your focus from the main group, to the disobeying prisoner.

 

^

[BluESandwicH]

This is Vague.

I acknowledged this in the post, Lose focus could mean move cross-hair or do a 180. banning people on the words 'lose focus' is absurd - i said this

 

 

Also on jb_sg_dojo_v5-6 there are leaves on the stairs to where i should not be able to see them if they follow the order and stay on the sand.

Yet there whole body is visible and they are 1536 units away

[Gentoo]

@delirium

 

While it seems, first glance, that this would be something very obvious, players have been taking this vaguely worded rule into their own hands by misconstruing it and interpreting it however they please. Not to shift the blame, because this is something that should be very easy to understand, but the lack of AT/SR/SA activity on the server has allowed newer players to become confused or misled by this rule.

[thump]

You just want to abuse this rule so you can get more kills. Earlier in JB on dojo you decided to spray down some Ts for "blatantly disobeying" for going up some cobblestone stairs and not staying on the sand path the entire time. While this is clearly disobeying, it clearly is not blatant disobey. You can't just spray people down for disobeying your orders for less than a second and going right back to the order. That's like spraying someone down on electric razor for being told to go to iso then he jumps up and grabs the deagle out of the fountain. What you did on dojo was 100% a mass freekill. The Ts disobeyed your order once and you clearly gave the orders to trick the Ts into disobeying, but you decided to spray them down instead of just warning shotting them. The Ts were still on the sand path when you killed them and should not have been sprayed down like you did to them.

 

Edit: The order you gave was bum rush follow me and stay on the sand path at all times.

[BluESandwicH]

Thats why we are having this conversation, why im getting harassed and banned for KOS'ing people when theres not clear guideline.

 

the order is not misleading.

the issue arises when different admins have a different stance on the topic which is what i am running into and why i made this post i appreciate you took the time to read it, and all you took from it was 'this guy just wants more kills' i bet you do well in English

 

 

 

 

You just want to abuse this rule so you can get more kills. Earlier in JB on dojo you decided to spray down some Ts for "blatantly disobeying" for going up some cobblestone stairs and not staying on the sand path the entire time. While this is clearly disobeying, it clearly is not blatant disobey. You can't just spray people down for disobeying your orders for less than a second and going right back to the order. That's like spraying someone down on electric razor for being told to go to iso then he jumps up and grabs the deagle out of the fountain. What you did on dojo was 100% a mass freekill. The Ts disobeyed your order once and you clearly gave the orders to trick the Ts into disobeying, but you decided to spray them down instead of just warning shotting them. The Ts were still on the sand path when you killed them and should not have been sprayed down like you did to them.

 

Edit: The order you gave was bum rush follow me and stay on the sand path at all times.

[thump]

Thats why we are having this conversation, why im getting harassed and banned for KOS'ing people when theres not clear guideline.

 

the order is not misleading.

the issue arises when different admins have a different stance on the topic which is what i am running into and why i made this post i appreciate you took the time to read it, and all you took from it was 'this guy just wants more kills' i bet you do well in English

 

Not sure why you're taking my intelligence in school into this, but I'll just disregard that. To address the "the order is not misleading" part, it definitely was meant to mislead the Ts. You gave the order crouch walk follow me and stay on the sand path at all times, then as we were approaching the cobblestone stairs you say bum rush follow me and the Ts obviously follow that order. Then, you spray all of them down for going up some stairs. Now I don't know about you, but that seems like a really kill hungry thing to do, and while being a kill hungry CT isn't bannable or an offense, what you did was just plain freekill. You were punished for it cause clearly what you did was mass freekill, and yet you're on the forums complaining about it. If I were you I would stop cutting it so close with the rules and trying to interpret them in your own way after just coming off of a ban.

 

Edit: Just looked at your recent player complaint, because I was just curious as to why and how you were freekilling, and it seems you got banned already for doing the exact same thing you're trying to justify here.

[bat]

@BluESandwicH I don't think Blatant Disobey really needs to be more in depth. It's already pretty clear cut, if you don't follow the order you are warning shot then KOS'd. However, there is some sound pollution and mic chatter that can confuse things. It's a little difficult to hear orders at the start of the round when all the Ts are knifing their cellmates, and when Prisoners are unmuted it's even more chaotic. Just be more clear when you're giving First Order or other Orders, and freekilling will be avoided.

[BluESandwicH]

You were punished for it cause clearly what you did was mass freekill.

 

 

Thats the problem. i have had other admins online wile doing that with no repercussions.

 

Also defining what makes it MFK is the point of this post. cause its clearly not distance or area. and its difficult to say togetherness with other T's

[Gumline]

BluESandwicH I had to slay and swap you for this. Send the clip to any staff member you'd like, you were rightfully slayed and switched!