[Rejected] Increase Required Time (CT) (JB)

[Uno]

In the SG JB server there has been more mass free killing and rule breaking on the CT side than ever (correct if wrong). A lot of people that have been hopping on the JB server just to free kill and ruin round(s) by simply just waiting 25 min. (Required time to be able to join CT/Guards). When they have been on the server for that time and switch, and then free kill and break rules. To fix this, I believe that the required time to be a guard should almost doubled (40-50 min.). And yes, this can be supported with a simple CT ban but it won’t help prevent it from happening again. But by increasing the time limit, it would be a waste of time to the person who has the idea to free kill or even break rules applied to CTs! I really do hope that this does get applied because it would help out a lot for the JB community as a whole.

[kabLe]

This has been discussed in many threads and many meetings with the staff. Ultimately we decided 25 minutes was the best due to issues like not wanting to make it too long and end up chasing away potential new players who are familiar with JB. I'm writing this on my phone so I won't go into too much detail but if you search the JB and Rules suggestion sub forums you will find a few threads on it. Anyway many ideas and potential scenarios were brought up but I personally don't think using people mass freekilling as a good scenario to increase it. If someone is gonna wait 25 minutes specifically to go on CT mass freekill and leave I'm sure they'll be willing to wait 40-45 minutes to do the same. In the end your still detouring other players from the ability to play as CT.

 

I say this as someone who absolutely loves to fuck around (I'm a fan of that dumb shit you see) and I know if I was really willing to wait 25 minutes just to be able to switch to CT and mow the whole server down for the memes I can just as easily wait 45 minutes.

 

But like is always said, nothing is written in stone and everything is subjected to change. If you can construct a good argument I have no problem getting behind it and speaking with the jb team on this but you need to consider more than just stopping mass freekillers who are willing to wait 25 minutes to troll a server. If anyone else has an opinion on this now in this thread is the time to say it.

[Lokibelowkey]

To fix this, I believe that the required time to be a guard should almost doubled (40-50 min.).

 

And yes, this can be supported with a simple CT ban but it won’t help prevent it from happening again.

 

You contradict your self here you say that 50 minutes would be enough, but forcing the player to play 2 hours from a ct ban isn't enough? Can you explain?

[Uno]

What I meant was why waste almost an hour of your time just to break the rules and get a banned. Some people make alt accounts just to do it again and again repeating the process. But with an increase of required time- it would be more unlikely it will occur again.

[fantastic]

What I meant was why waste almost an hour of your time just to break the rules and get a banned. Some people make alt accounts just to do it again and again repeating the process. But with an increase of required time- it would be more unlikely it will occur again.

 

I find it difficult to believe that there is any sort of correlation between lengthening the time before one can play CT vs. the chance someone freekills. The 25 minutes are there so people can learn the rules and then join CT if they so choose. If players decide to join the server to freekill they'll wait out whatever time limit is imposed. There needs to be a balance between new players learning the rules and players looking for an opportunity to mass freekill, hence the 25 minutes. There's already been a huge discussion about this previously which I invite you to look at.

 

At the moment the 25 minute ban isn't working which is why there are more freekillers than normal. Admins have been instructed to only move players if they are causing an issue and to not manually place a 25 minute CT ban on players as it leaves a record. When no admins are online you can make a player complaint or !calladmin

[Dominic]

I think it's completely reasonable to say "higher required playtime, lower chance of freekilling" personally. Obviously if we increased it to like 25 hours and a guy came on to freekill, he's probably just going to realize that and leave. However, the problem always lies in the fact there isn't any reasonable amount of time that will actually completely deter people from freekilling.

 

Personally when I look at a thread like this I feel as though people have the wrong idea of what the primary goal of this plugin is. Sure, it can prevent a freekiller here and there, but I think it's main focus is on letting players get educated who actually want to play CT before they do so. It prevents people with good intentions from messing up very badly off the bat and getting themselves in trouble. If everyone recognizes that if someone really wants to freekill, they'll just wait the 25 minutes, then I think you can also recognize that it probably isn't it's sole function.

 

That's just coming from a person who helped formulate the original idea for CT Lockout and is based off my personal opinion, I suppose what the plugin's benefit is to the server is up to you guys. Just wanted to put that out there as food for thought though.

[delirium]

I think the main question here is: Is raising the time required to play before joining CT prohibitive durning non peak hours? As in, will we run across situations where no one can join CT due to an increased play time requirement when the server isn't as populated? What are other possible downsides to raising this requirement?

 

What a lot of people don't understand when they come crying to the forums on issues like this and a few other jailbreak hot topics is that a change is a change at the end of the day. While you may receive your intended effect there are numerous side effects that may or may not be apparent. If I were one of the people complaining about jailbreaks situation I would first think to myself what I as an individual can do about the situation, whether that be a change in attitude, how I react to situations on the server, and what can I do better to resolve this situation without having to have Staff involved. Granted, in some situations such as people coming on with the intentions to break the rules staff will likely have to get involved but how would raising a timer stop people in that situation?

[TheZZL]

I think the main question here is: Is raising the time required to play before joining CT prohibitive durning non peak hours? As in, will we run across situations where no one can join CT due to an increased play time requirement when the server isn't as populated? What are other possible downsides to raising this requirement?

 

What a lot of people don't understand when they come crying to the forums on issues like this and a few other jailbreak hot topics is that a change is a change at the end of the day. While you may receive your intended effect there are numerous side effects that may or may not be apparent. If I were one of the people complaining about jailbreaks situation I would first think to myself what I as an individual can do about the situation, whether that be a change in attitude, how I react to situations on the server, and what can I do better to resolve this situation without having to have Staff involved. Granted, in some situations such as people coming on with the intentions to break the rules staff will likely have to get involved but how would raising a timer stop people in that situation?

 

Well, the players do often try to help without getting staff on. We have a somewhat nice community of regulars who actively try to educate and make newer players understands the fundamentals of OUR version of Jailbreak. Whenever a new player accidentally breaks a rule or is ignorant of certain attitudes we don't aspire to use, us regulars are quick to help out. However, most of the time we have players who refuse to admit they're wrong unless told and enforced by a higher power (Admins). In these situations the only way we can help out is by continuously reminding them how their actions are wrong, and maybe file a player complaint (Which takes too long to post and the player has already done their damage to the map/s). Even then, if you want results faster than a player complaint the easiest way is to ask for an admin in shoutbox or get on teamspeak. A lot of the times admins are busy (They have other responsibilities and servers to attend to!), so it takes a lot longer to rid the server of the menace/ct-banning them etc.

Note: In no way shape or form am I discrediting the work admins do, if it wasn't for our admins and devoted players I don't think SG would have ever took off.

 

Anyways, the current timer on jailbreak is 25 minutes. This still leads to the situation provided above to happen more than often. I believe it should at least be raised to forty minutes. This is a total of two maps (if not rtv'd [basically Razor]) and revamp. I feel this gives a player more than enough time to actually learn the rules and become a somewhat ideal CT player. On the other hand, in a perfect world new CT's wouldn't give orders and instead follow what current CT's are doing to learn from them. This brings up another topic, CT ranks. This has been discussed before and I believe it's in the works (Correct me if i'm wrong)? So, whenever CT ranks are added it'll definitely help the problem by letting newer players know who has more knowledge and experience.

[delirium]

Well, the players do often try to help without getting staff on. We have a somewhat nice community of regulars who actively try to educate and make newer players understands the fundamentals of OUR version of Jailbreak. Whenever a new player accidentally breaks a rule or is ignorant of certain attitudes we don't aspire to use, us regulars are quick to help out. However, most of the time we have players who refuse to admit they're wrong unless told and enforced by a higher power (Admins). In these situations the only way we can help out is by continuously reminding them how their actions are wrong, and maybe file a player complaint (Which takes too long to post and the player has already done their damage to the map/s). Even then, if you want results faster than a player complaint the easiest way is to ask for an admin in shoutbox or get on teamspeak. A lot of the times admins are busy (They have other responsibilities and servers to attend to!), so it takes a lot longer to rid the server of the menace/ct-banning them etc.

Note: In no way shape or form am I discrediting the work admins do, if it wasn't for our admins and devoted players I don't think SG would have ever took off.

 

Cool. I appreciate the dedication from our player base to maintain some sense of order and pass on some of the traditions and knowledge that go along with playing on our server, however and as I'm sure you know by now, the way the regular population of jailbreak tends to escalate situations more often than not when it comes to addressing suspected rule breaking and how it comes down to a screaming match between two twelve year olds far to often. At some point some of the people who want to see changes really need to take a step back and see how their behavior fuels the toxicity just as much as the person they're blaming. I'm not saying every regular is a problem. I'm not even saying that the people I've seen contribute to the toxicity at times are a problem. I'm just saying that if you can convince people on the server that their problem with another member or whatever conflict is occurring is not that big of a deal; you will typically see a more relaxed environment. Getting freekilled a few times a map is not that big of a deal and I really don't understand why players freak out on the servers over something so small. I'm not saying that repeat offenders should not be punished, but at the end of the day, it is really not something worth getting upset over.

 

I really don't know if increasing a timer is going to fix a problem that is far bigger than just a few free killers. Slapping on more restrictions will do nothing other than discourage potential players from sticking around if they're semi competent.

[TheZZL]

Cool. I appreciate the dedication from our player base to maintain some sense of order and pass on some of the traditions and knowledge that go along with playing on our server, however and as I'm sure you know by now, the way the regular population of jailbreak tends to escalate situations more often than not when it comes to addressing suspected rule breaking and how it comes down to a screaming match between two twelve year olds far to often. At some point some of the people who want to see changes really need to take a step back and see how their behavior fuels the toxicity just as much as the person they're blaming. I'm not saying every regular is a problem. I'm not even saying that the people I've seen contribute to the toxicity at times are a problem. I'm just saying that if you can convince people on the server that their problem with another member or whatever conflict is occurring is not that big of a deal; you will typically see a more relaxed environment. Getting freekilled a few times a map is not that big of a deal and I really don't understand why players freak out on the servers over something so small. I'm not saying that repeat offenders should not be punished, but at the end of the day, it is really not something worth getting upset over.

 

I really don't know if increasing a timer is going to fix a problem that is far bigger than just a few free killers. Slapping on more restrictions will do nothing other than add discourage potential players from sticking around if they're semi competent.

 

Anyways, the current timer on jailbreak is 25 minutes. This still leads to the situation provided above to happen more than often. I believe it should at least be raised to forty minutes. This is a total of two maps (if not rtv'd [basically Razor]) and revamp. I feel this gives a player more than enough time to actually learn the rules and become a somewhat ideal CT player. On the other hand, in a perfect world new CT's wouldn't give orders and instead follow what current CT's are doing to learn from them. This brings up another topic, CT ranks. This has been discussed before and I believe it's in the works (Correct me if i'm wrong)? So, whenever CT ranks are added it'll definitely help the problem by letting newer players know who has more knowledge and experience.

 

I'm aware of the toxicity of JB, but when we're at peak hours of players and toxicity it gets somewhat better. During those times we have admins on as well that help with it and the group of friendly regulars. I say increasing the timer to too full map rotations would better help out newer players completely understand the rules. This would be extra beneficial because not only does it make the new players come to the conclusion of the rules themselves, it saves the time of players and admins. I wouldn't be opposed to negotiating between the 30-40 minute range, but at that point we're making negligible changes.