[Rejected] CA Changes

[TheZZL]

Gonna agree with ZZL here, you would have to switch SR and CA with each other because as a CA you need some game time and experience because you can't handle player complaints with proper knowledge and give proper punishments. I guess forum and teamspeak moderation you don't game need activity but I would still recommend having it as just straight background knowledge. As an SR, you don't really need game time to know what you're doing. All of your activity is based out of forums and you help ATs in maintaining the servers.

 

I think you missed my point. Both roles, CA and SR would require A-SA ranks first before jumping the gun. You would need game time and experience to be an SR because you are shadowing the AT, and eventually may become one for that server.

[Tyymunk]

Agree with a lot of different people in this thread but I just wanted to post my own opinion since I actually think we should change how CA works.

 

First off, I want to clarify I wasn’t here when AO was a thing so I’m not 100% sure how well it worked compared to what we have now. From what I have heard, AO was basically AT and IA combined into one rank. I would consider AT a more server-based rank. ATs manage the server, do updates, allow events, blah blah blah. If ATs more of a server-based rank then IA would be considered more forums-based. IAs handle ban appeals, admin complaints, assist in higher up discussion, etc. The system works pretty well and sometimes ATs can have IA as well.

 

Well how does this relate to CA? Well CA should basically be split up into 2 hypothetical ranks. SR and “CA” or the forums-based rank. SRs would work with the ATs on the server, take input from community, run server-based meetings, know all the rules, server stuff… “CAs” however would be second to IAs (similar to how SRs would be second to ATs). They would do player complaints, moderate forums, awards, group requests, handle reported posts, etc.

 

This hypothetical change would do a couple things. One is it would allow the current CAs to hone in on one side of our community, servers or forums. This is not to say you can’t be both (how an AT can be IA as well). An example of someone I think could be both would be @fantastic he fits both descriptions of the hypothetical rank. Two is it would allow for future members to possibly become “CAs” and not necessarily have to play the servers a ton. And the same with SR if someone is not super active on the forums. Three is that the strange transition from SA to CA would be a little bit easier for someone promoted if they could start at either CA or SR and then either become both eventually or work towards a promotion to AT or IA depending.

 

Of course, like @TheZZL said I still think a member would have to start off by applying for admin, getting the support, have A for three months, get SA and then move on from there...

 

I made a shitty little chart that kind of explains what I’m thinking:

 

 

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with our current setup but I do think a change could prove helpful. Maybe I’m completely wrong but I think it’s worth a shot...

[Gentoo]

While I understand you cutting the connection from regulars to CA, it doesn't make sense that you would link ATs to BDs. IA is a role that requires good judgement and interpersonal interpersonal skills and should serve as a prerequisite skill to BD considered their responsibilities function very similarly. It would make sense that any AT interested in a BD role would take on the IA role responsibilities prior to becoming BD.

[Tyymunk]

While I understand you cutting the connection from regulars to CA, it doesn't make sense that you would link ATs to BDs. IA is a role that requires good judgement and interpersonal interpersonal skills and should serve as a prerequisite skill to BD considered their responsibilities function very similarly. It would make sense that any AT interested in a BD role would take on the IA role responsibilities prior to becoming BD.

 

I guess I wasn't exactly thinking about that part of the chart. It was more of like a "who's in charge of who" kind of thing. You're absolutely right. You probably would need experience in both AT as well as IA to be promoted...

[Prez]

“CAs” however would be second to IAs (similar to how SRs would be second to ATs). They would do player complaints, moderate forums, awards, group requests, handle reported posts, etc.

.

 

I don't think there is enough work to do it like this, tbh. The frequency of the bolded items were quite low when I was on staff, save *maybe* for complaints. You wouldn't need more than two people in a CA rank if this were their core set of responsibilities.

[delirium]

I don't think there is enough work to do it like this, tbh. The frequency of the bolded items were quite low when I was on staff, save *maybe* for complaints. You wouldn't need more than two people in a CA rank if this were their core set of responsibilities.

 

driving discussion through suggestions has always been a core part of this rank and the housekeeping duties will prepare them to use higher admin menus. in addition to this a shift in primary focus could provide more opportunities to work closer with the IA team in order to learn more about how things are done within this community. i think it would be valuable to have a medium sized pool of applicants in this rank just to keep ideas coming in. obviously a quota wouldnt be the solution here but you can tell when someone cares and is able to make consistently decent suggestions.

 

Overall I think there's a case to be made for expanding the rank structure to include a mid tier server focused admin.

[Prez]

driving discussion through suggestions has always been a core part of this rank and the housekeeping duties will prepare them to use higher admin menus. in addition to this a shift in primary focus could provide more opportunities to work closer with the IA team in order to learn more about how things are done within this community. i think it would be valuable to have a medium sized pool of applicants in this rank just to keep ideas coming in. obviously a quota wouldnt be the solution here but you can tell when someone cares and is able to make consistently decent suggestions.

 

Overall I think there's a case to be made for expanding the rank structure to include a mid tier server focused admin.

 

I agree with giving people an opportunity for learning and training, but I feel like if you were to split it out like this there wouldn't be many opportunities for someone to "shine" like they could as an SR (or even SA in some ways). If your core responsibilities involve "housekeeping duties" (which, from the above post, mostly is what it would be) then it would be extremely difficult to outperform those duties.. unless you pick up additional tasks, which may be hard to do if we clearly split the roles in two. It would probably become the case where people want to hold both ranks, and those people go forward while those just holding the CA rank are just "there". 2c

[Tyymunk]

I agree with giving people an opportunity for learning and training, but I feel like if you were to split it out like this there wouldn't be many opportunities for someone to "shine" like they could as an SR (or even SA in some ways). If your core responsibilities involve "housekeeping duties" (which, from the above post, mostly is what it would be) then it would be extremely difficult to outperform those duties.. unless you pick up additional tasks, which may be hard to do if we clearly split the roles in two. It would probably become the case where people want to hold both ranks, and those people go forward while those just holding the CA rank are just "there". 2c

 

You’re absolutely right now that I’m thinking about it. CA alone would only need about 3 or 4 people and there would be little to do. Maybe if we had laid out like A to SA to SR to SR + CA? I’m on my phone at the moment so I can’t really draw a chart but it would be similar to how AT and IA are. There are exceptions, but commonly people get AT then IA. The “CA” rank could simply be an add on to SR and could better identify people who are candidates for AT. This would however require people who want CA to first get SR, and they would have to play the servers. People who just want SR though, are able to play the servers while not necessarily moderate and be super active on the forums...

[Gentoo]

I agree with giving people an opportunity for learning and training, but I feel like if you were to split it out like this there wouldn't be many opportunities for someone to "shine" like they could as an SR (or even SA in some ways). If your core responsibilities involve "housekeeping duties" (which, from the above post, mostly is what it would be) then it would be extremely difficult to outperform those duties.. unless you pick up additional tasks, which may be hard to do if we clearly split the roles in two. It would probably become the case where people want to hold both ranks, and those people go forward while those just holding the CA rank are just "there". 2c

 

Do you think this is a possible reason for some of the congested moderation we've seen in the current CA rank? 11 people trying to shine in a rank that has seemingly already been pushed further from the servers and closer to the forums than it previously was? Do you have any suggestions on how this could be fixed, or are you happy with the current system?

 

To me, at least, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a role that doesn't need filled by very many people. The IA role usually has 3-4 members and they get the job done fine. It's reserved for people that can be trusted to do good work in it.

[Prez]

Do you think this is a possible reason for some of the congested moderation we've seen in the current CA rank? 11 people trying to shine in a rank that has seemingly already been pushed further from the servers and closer to the forums than it previously was? Do you have any suggestions on how this could be fixed, or are you happy with the current system?

 

To me, at least, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a role that doesn't need filled by very many people. The IA role usually has 3-4 members and they get the job done fine. It's reserved for people that can be trusted to do good work in it.

 

One thing I'd like to add to my thoughts is if it's agreed that having this role would be worth a shot, I think it would do its' intended purpose, but limited to a small amount of people. So I'm not against the concept of it.

 

I'm not sure what my "perfect" view of the CA rank is/would be to best honest. I have seen it in so many iterations and we haven't really had one that was "perfect". I tend to like having more resources dedicated towards server work, but that rank is limited in access and server-based movement is tendered towards AT just based on how things work on a structural basis. I don't think there is enough work on the forums for 11 people to do the same amount, so congestion becomes a thing.

 

It has to be a balance if you keep all of those responsibilities in one rank. I think there is still work to do to better flesh out and segment our responsibilities so you don't run into an issue where there's not enough to do within a rank's "bubble" - which is in part I think what is going on now. So, I really don't have a "smoking gun" answer for you. I've thought about this for a long time, and the results of that show with the division system we released over a year ago. However, it was really just Step 1; it is still a fact that our main ladder is A - SA - CA - AT - BD (more or less), and not much has been changed for those core ranks above SA. We've added more outside of it to cater to other talent (media, modding, (formerly) marketing), but you're right in that CA - and for me, AT as well - need a better format.