MS3&4: manual CT bans and delayed kills for warning shots

[aelius]

3) "I didn't see it happen."

 

This sentence causes the second most emotional damage to me out of any sentence in the english language besides "I wish I had a daughter". I understand the logic of this, I really do, but there has to be some point where enough of the Ts have been complaining about a guard for them to be switched to T. Even if admins aren't supposed to take a Ts word when they use !fk, if a player named Harvard Business has !fk used on them by 12 out of 16 Ts in one map, they should get temporarily CT banned. I believe admins began to favor CTs in decisions way too much after gangs were introduced and the playercount is low, but it's not like that anymore. And even when the ratio is tilted toward Ts, I'd rather have a bunch of CTs that are bad at controlling prisoners then a bunch of CTs giving orders that allow them to turn the gamemode into some screwed up version of DM. If players are being routinely reported for freekill, and an admin doesn't see any of them, after a certain amount of reports the CT should be manually handed a temporary CT ban by an admin.

 

 

4) "I already gave you a warning shot, I can kill you."

 

Why does everyone think this? This isn't a thing! You can kill after warning shot for the same order, but it resets for a new order. If you think I'm wrong, then you're suffering from the Mandela effect. In the JB Rules page; "Warning shots (1 Shot, 1-99 DMG) are required unless the T is rebelling or blatantly disobeying orders. After a warning shot is given if the T keeps disobeying the same order they can be killed." The page's emphasis, not mine. This isn't so much of a matter of changing a rule as it is simple enforcement. I can't count the amount of times I've typed !fk, an admin questions the CT, the CT says "gave a warning shot" and the admin gives the CT a pass even if the warning shot was for an order 2 minutes prior. This excuse can be proven wrong just by looking at logs, because the reason for killing the CT just gave can be proved as completely wrong if the logs were used to show the warning shot was for a previous order and not the same. This is just another way the Epic Bosses abuse the rules to no repercussions.

[Gentoo]

3) "I didn't see it happen."

 

This sentence causes the second most emotional damage to me out of any sentence in the english language besides "I wish I had a daughter". I understand the logic of this, I really do, but there has to be some point where enough of the Ts have been complaining about a guard for them to be switched to T. Even if admins aren't supposed to take a Ts word when they use !fk, if a player named Harvard Business has !fk used on them by 12 out of 16 Ts in one map, they should get temporarily CT banned. I believe admins began to favor CTs in decisions way too much after gangs were introduced and the playercount is low, but it's not like that anymore. And even when the ratio is tilted toward Ts, I'd rather have a bunch of CTs that are bad at controlling prisoners then a bunch of CTs giving orders that allow them to turn the gamemode into some screwed up version of DM. If players are being routinely reported for freekill, and an admin doesn't see any of them, after a certain amount of reports the CT should be manually handed a temporary CT ban by an admin.

 

You ever seen @Military_king play CT undercover?

[urpalerp]

3) "I didn't see it happen."

 

This sentence causes the second most emotional damage to me out of any sentence in the english language besides "I wish I had a daughter". I understand the logic of this, I really do, but there has to be some point where enough of the Ts have been complaining about a guard for them to be switched to T. Even if admins aren't supposed to take a Ts word when they use !fk, if a player named Harvard Business has !fk used on them by 12 out of 16 Ts in one map, they should get temporarily CT banned. I believe admins began to favor CTs in decisions way too much after gangs were introduced and the playercount is low, but it's not like that anymore. And even when the ratio is tilted toward Ts, I'd rather have a bunch of CTs that are bad at controlling prisoners then a bunch of CTs giving orders that allow them to turn the gamemode into some screwed up version of DM. If players are being routinely reported for freekill, and an admin doesn't see any of them, after a certain amount of reports the CT should be manually handed a temporary CT ban by an admin.

 

Your point of making it so that a certain amount of reports makes someone ct banned is completely unreasonable imo. This would easily be so abused on a single ct who the ts may hate. Let’s say that there’s one player on ct with a higher pitches voice and a bit younger than the rest, for some reason the players love to harass this one person who is only trying to have some fun. Then with this in place, the “bullies” can just abuse it to ct ban the one player who has done nothing wrong. As well, if this were to be abused on multiple players, it would most certainly discourage players to join our server.

[Trazz]

3) "I didn't see it happen."

 

I understand the logic of this, I really do, but there has to be some point where enough of the Ts have been complaining about a guard for them to be switched to T. Even if admins aren't supposed to take a Ts word when they use !fk, if a player named Harvard Business has !fk used on them by 12 out of 16 Ts in one map, they should get temporarily CT banned. If players are being routinely reported for freekill, and an admin doesn't see any of them, after a certain amount of reports the CT should be manually handed a temporary CT ban by an admin.

 

This is something that I can see easily being abused. I do not really see in the future or any time at all an auto ban system as many times there can be valid reasons. Even though admins are not suppose to be "investigators" this does not include going into spectator and watching the player for a round. If many players are complaining about one the admin on should adjust their attention to that player.

 

If an admin joins a server to four regulars all complaining about the same fresh CT, and you see this CT has double-digit freekill reports on the current map, it might be a good idea to spectate the player, or switch them off of CT for a bit.

 

Spectating I can agree but deciding to switch them just because others were complaining would bring the admin more problems with a potential complaint.

 

I would love a system that just tallies how many !fk reports a player has received a map/each day, so admins who join a server that's in chaos have a data set that gives them a suggestion of who to watch and who might be making problems on a map. Wouldn't that be helpful information to have as an admin when you first join a server? A list of the players who are being reported the most that day/map?

There is the !calladmin feature that we can see on discord and a suggestion like yours is being discussed.

[delirium]

Not going to argue the first point as I wouldn't feel comfortable telling my admins anything other than if you didn't see it don't put yourself in a position to come under fire later.

 

As far as the second piece goes though: if I give you a warning shot for 55 for not following the first order and then as a result of not obeying the second order my first shot does 60 and kills you is not my problem as a CT. Technically as long as the first warning shot you received did between 1-99 and the second did between 1-99 you're not being freekilled.

[TheZZL]

4) "I already gave you a warning shot, I can kill you."

 

Why does everyone think this? This isn't a thing! You can kill after warning shot for the same order, but it resets for a new order. If you think I'm wrong, then you're suffering from the Mandela effect. In the JB Rules page; "Warning shots (1 Shot, 1-99 DMG) are required unless the T is rebelling or blatantly disobeying orders. After a warning shot is given if the T keeps disobeying the same order they can be killed." The page's emphasis, not mine. This isn't so much of a matter of changing a rule as it is simple enforcement. I can't count the amount of times I've typed !fk, an admin questions the CT, the CT says "gave a warning shot" and the admin gives the CT a pass even if the warning shot was for an order 2 minutes prior. This excuse can be proven wrong just by looking at logs, because the reason for killing the CT just gave can be proved as completely wrong if the logs were used to show the warning shot was for a previous order and not the same. This is just another way the Epic Bosses abuse the rules to no repercussions.

 

Jb logs aren’t like TTT logs, we don’t know when someone got a different set of damage delt to them. It’s something like this: DAMAGE GIVEN TO Aelius 273 in 5

You might be right if people are confusing this rule, but that just comes down to ignorance. You can link them the rules page, explain the rule, and help out all you want. However, if they’re just breaking this rule record a player complaint. Admins shouldn’t have to always give a player a strict punishments, giving the player a pass and educating them on the rules is better.

 

 

I’m not going to quote the entire first part again so here’s my response:

 

A lot of these things have been repeated beautifully by @Trazz and @urp already, but I need to touch it up with my two cents. Having a system auto kick someone from CT just because they’re playing well is ridiculous. Having the t’s rebel and win every round over and over is what makes players get bored. The ideal JB is a balance between rebelling and orders. If the T’s start getting more successful, then it’s time to bring out the big guns and play by the book. Then, what if players think they’re being free killed and decide to rally their friends to type !fk . Now, we have a good CT forced to play T side while the T’s wreak havoc over and over because he/she can’t get back on CT side.

 

As far as the second piece goes though: if I give you a warning shot for 55 for not following the first order and then as a result of not obeying the second order my first shot does 60 and kills you is not my problem as a CT. Technically as long as the first warning shot you received did between 1-99 and the second did between 1-99 you're not being freekilled.

In this scenario I think he means if a T is given a warning shot for an order, there is a rule stating if the T disobeys the same exact order after already being warning shot they can be killed (1 tapped). According to Aelius, some players seem to think this means after one warning shot, you can be killed for disobeying any other order. This is not true, and is simple ignorance of the rules (something you still get punished for).

[Dom]

for the first part, admins can't see anything and they can't just go off what people say. I understand your frustration but thats just how it is. there are some people that think every time they die they've been freekilled and never shut up about it to admins to the point where they have to be muted sometimes. if these people knew about !fk (I don't think many people other than regs know it exists) and it ct banned a person it would be heavily abused to ct ban strict players and people that kill the annoying twats that complain about it for 5 rounds. even though you suggest it should be done manually, people will attack the admins for not enforcing the x amount of !fk reports/# of players rule. a lot of times what one person thinks is freekilling is seen as perfectly fine by someone else, this has happened to me many times and I've realized I was wrong after asking the ct about it. its just not a good idea.

 

for the second part, i didnt even know this was a rule. unless someones studied the rules and FAQ they prob dont know about this either and i dont blame them. now that this has been brought up and myself along with whoever reads this thread knows about it, the hardest part will be trying to enforce it because as im sure you know there are some people who think they know every rule and wont listen when you try to explain these types of things to them. its really just informing the jb server that this rule exists and making sure people follow it. as mentioned before, if you die because of a second warning shot (1-99 damage) thats on you, but if you get domed for a different order then your frustration is understandable.

[aelius]

@urp @Trazz I never wanted it to be automatic, and yes I agree that's dumb. In an optimal world where CS:GO plugins were easy to create and implement bug-free, I would love a system that just tallies how many !fk reports a player has received a map/each day, so admins who join a server that's in chaos have a data set that gives them a suggestion of who to watch and who might be making problems on a map. Wouldn't that be helpful information to have as an admin when you first join a server? A list of the players who are being reported the most that day/map? Again, this is where an admin's discretion comes in. You would have to differentiate between someone getting mass reported with !fk for being a squeaker, and a player getting legitimate reports, but admins know their playerbase the best. If an admin joins a server to four regulars all complaining about the same fresh CT, and you see this CT has double-digit freekill reports on the current map, it might be a good idea to spectate the player, or switch them off of CT for a bit.

[TheZZL]

I would love a system that just tallies how many !fk reports a player has received a map/each day, so admins who join a server that's in chaos have a data set that gives them a suggestion of who to watch and who might be making problems on a map. Wouldn't that be helpful information to have as an admin when you first join a server? A list of the players who are being reported the most that day/map? Again, this is where an admin's discretion comes in. You would have to differentiate between someone getting mass reported with !fk for being a squeaker, and a player getting legitimate reports, but admins know their playerbase the best. If an admin joins a server to four regulars all complaining about the same fresh CT, and you see this CT has double-digit freekill reports on the current map, it might be a good idea to spectate the player, or switch them off of CT for a bit.

 

 

 

after a certain amount of reports the CT should be manually handed a temporary CT ban by an admin.

 

This already happens. The way you phrased your OP suggested making this an automatic thing. Of course admins know when to switch what players and when, it's their server, you said it yourself. If your entire OP's idea is just saying, "If a CT has too many !fk reports admins should switch them", then no that doesn't make much sense. You amended this in your response later; if a player has a lot of !fk reports and !calladmins you should watch them, maybe switch them for "ratio" if its been deemed necessary. In my opinion, you should never just randomly switch someone because people are saying they're freekilling.

[fantastic]

3) Rejected. This can easily be abused and result in unfair bans against undeserving players.

 

4) There's no suggestion here... it's a rule already. If you see an admin that is unclear of the rules please try to point them to the rules or let an IA know so they can clarify any misunderstandings.

 

Thanks .