Directional Orders

[fantastic]

So I feel like directional orders like these often are orders designed to cause some kind of chaos or confusion and provide CTs with easy warning shots for people who aren't able to follow the order. Why say "face west" instead of "face back of cells" so you can check to see if any prisoners have any pistols? While I really, really dislike taking away freedom from the CTs and placing more intangible rules, in this case it seems like a lot more of a headache to keep directional orders than to just label them as unreasonable.

 

Thoughts?

[Dom]

So I feel like directional orders like these often are orders designed to cause some kind of chaos or confusion and provide CTs with easy warning shots for people who aren't able to follow the order.

 

this is definitely the case for some people. some CTs purposely say “face south” really fast or mumble it so it sounds like “face cells” just so they can kill everyone for not following orders

I think rather than using compass bearings to get T’s to face a certain way it would be a lot easier to use landmarks on the map ie. face pool or face kitchen. this could be some sort of compromise between staff and players where CTs can name a direction but have to accompany it with a clearly identifiable building or map feature so that players with the other type of minimap can follow it easily, ie “take a step out and face east which is towards big cage”. CTs also have access to /marker which can be used to help Ts find a certain direction.

[Noxstar]

Why say "face west" instead of "face back of cells" so you can check to see if any prisoners have any pistols? in this case it seems like a lot more of a headache to keep directional orders than to just label them as unreasonable.

 

CT's are just using a basic game mechanic in order to more easily say "west" than saying "back of cells". It's a really petty thing and I wouldn't mind it falling under unreasonable, but I think it's all designed to just get more kills too. If game mechanics break because of the maps, we can just remove the directional orders. and maybe if the smallest sliver of light sheds on us, someone will fix all the minimaps on all the maps lol.

 

Also I think people get the hang of the directional orders after getting killed multiple times. I have distaste in it but it's not as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.

[Snootch]

this is definitely the case for some people. some CTs purposely say “face south” really fast or mumble it so it sounds like “face cells” just so they can kill everyone for not following orders

I think rather than using compass bearings to get T’s to face a certain way it would be a lot easier to use landmarks on the map ie. face pool or face kitchen. this could be some sort of compromise between staff and players where CTs can name a direction but have to accompany it with a clearly identifiable building or map feature so that players with the other type of minimap can follow it easily, ie “take a step out and face east which is towards big cage”. CTs also have access to /marker which can be used to help Ts find a certain direction.

 

I can say for certainty that this is 100% correct. It's the same with Chat Orders, a CT will give a MIC order and another CT will throw something in chat and it will just get spammed away into oblivion then expect you to already know what's going on while saying "I don't have to repeat orders" which makes me want a better CT chat system, something to have their text/name really POP and stand out in the chat or something that we can see what the last few chat orders were. I'm not against directional orders but it's getting a bit out of hand when they are trying to just get easy kills like this is some other JB server and it really becomes a problem when it's nearly a full server and the mic/chat spam is just outrageous.

[TheZZL]

I can say for certainty that this is 100% correct. It's the same with Chat Orders, a CT will give a MIC order and another CT will throw something in chat and it will just get spammed away into oblivion then expect you to already know what's going on while saying "I don't have to repeat orders" which makes me want a better CT chat system, something to have their text/name really POP and stand out in the chat or something that we can see what the last few chat orders were. I'm not against directional orders but it's getting a bit out of hand when they are trying to just get easy kills like this is some other JB server and it really becomes a problem when it's nearly a full server and the mic/chat spam is just outrageous.

 

I believe something like this, to make chat orders "POP" would only work for First Order as this would be abused. Directional orders aren't really getting out of hand, CT's talking super fast or mumbling is. In those scenarios, you should force them to repeat it as no one could understand it.

 

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That "dark abyss" isn't what you should be looking at, or need to be looking at. That arrow facing up is North (as a compass would work), and it doesn't change it's location because North will stay North. I have the exact same minimap on some maps, it's just how it is and it's not a problem to look at.

 

 

It's so much easier IMO to just say 'face (insert inanimate object here)'. There's no drama associated with it. While someone's settings or a glitch can be argued, map unfamiliarity is not a valid reason to not follow an order.

So I feel like directional orders like these often are orders designed to cause some kind of chaos or confusion and provide CTs with easy warning shots for people who aren't able to follow the order. Why say "face west" instead of "face back of cells" so you can check to see if any prisoners have any pistols? While I really, really dislike taking away freedom from the CTs and placing more intangible rules, in this case it seems like a lot more of a headache to keep directional orders than to just label them as unreasonable.

 

Got to agree with Caution here, it's not a super unreasonable order and if you fuck up and die once, you'll get the hang of it next time. That's just how Jailbreak works, when you're new you die a lot but then you get used to it.

 

Directional orders suck if you don't know what you're doing, but like i said it's not too hard. Yes, ordering T's to look at an object instead is a better order, but you can also use the same argument with people not knowing where to look at. For example, a new player might not know what direction soccer is, and then die. However, players are supposed to know the map, CT's shouldn't have to always bend over and show them where it is exactly. You can always argue about the validity or easiness of an order, but nonetheless you just have to stick with it sometimes (Also I think you're all overexaggerating the direness of the order).

[Gentoo]

So I feel like directional orders like these often are orders designed to cause some kind of chaos or confusion and provide CTs with easy warning shots for people who aren't able to follow the order. Why say "face west" instead of "face back of cells" so you can check to see if any prisoners have any pistols? While I really, really dislike taking away freedom from the CTs and placing more intangible rules, in this case it seems like a lot more of a headache to keep directional orders than to just label them as unreasonable.

 

Thoughts?

 

Directional orders can be useful in certain situations. I use them often to reference walls, especially when I am unable to marker them. For instance, be on the Southern wall of Medic, be on the Western wall of colors. There are situations where it would be unsafe to go in and marker the wall, and using a different situation like "back wall" isn't descriptive enough. They shouldn't be used intentionally to confuse people, but they can be very useful still.

 

To expound upon this, for every unreasonable order that a CT can give, there's always going to be Ts that will twist words and try to interpret orders differently than they were intended. "Be on boxes? Big cage is a box!"

[Phoenix_]

So I feel like directional orders like these often are orders designed to cause some kind of chaos or confusion and provide CTs with easy warning shots for people who aren't able to follow the order. Why say "face west" instead of "face back of cells" so you can check to see if any prisoners have any pistols? While I really, really dislike taking away freedom from the CTs and placing more intangible rules, in this case it seems like a lot more of a headache to keep directional orders than to just label them as unreasonable.

 

Thoughts?

 

I have to agree with Fantastic here. Of course, keeping a CT's freedom in mind when trying to restrict something is important but directional orders weren't really trendy until a few months ago. I personally don't mind directional orders themselves, but I can say for a fact they get pretty much abused by kill hungry CTs who just want some free kills from people who don't know there's a compass or don't have one based on their setting for radar. I think going forward it may be better to keep it how it was for the most part since I began playing here and base it off inanimate objects like Caution and Fantastic have said.

 

Directional orders suck if you don't know what you're doing, but like i said it's not too hard. Yes, ordering T's to look at an object instead is a better order, but you can also use the same argument with people not knowing where to look at. For example, a new player might not know what direction soccer is, and then die. However, players are supposed to know the map, CT's shouldn't have to always bend over and show them where it is exactly. You can always argue about the validity or easiness of an order, but nonetheless you just have to stick with it sometimes (Also I think you're all overexaggerating the direness of the order).

 

So since you agree that ordering Ts to look at an object is a better order, why would you give an intentionally worse order that could cause more confusion? In your example, (say the map was electric revamp) would it even be a reasonable order to have "All Ts one step out of your cells, face soccer and freeze" since you can't actually see soccer from your cells? Now sure about 90% of players would face the right direction but there are also other objects you could say that would make more sense such as "face big cage", "face your cells", "face vip cell", or "face the vending machines".

 

How are we overexaggerating the direness of the order? It doesn't seem like this is an awful problem and this thread was made literally to discuss if they were a valid order because an admin said they weren't (via my word, and mistake). It was brought up by posters in the thread discussing the validity of the orders since we found out that some people's compass always points north, making following directional orders much harder for them simply based on their own preference of how they want their minimap. IMO if someone has to change a setting based on preference to follow an order, it should not be allowed. On top of this, you're right it's not too hard but as I said earlier it gets abused a lot on the server. Not naming names, but some people like to warning shot people the very instant they see them not facing the right direction and will be rather quick to give the second shot and claim they gave them the right amount of time to obey.

[TheZZL]

 

So since you agree that ordering Ts to look at an object is a better order, why would you give an intentionally worse order that could cause more confusion? In your example, (say the map was electric revamp) would it even be a reasonable order to have "All Ts one step out of your cells, face soccer and freeze" since you can't actually see soccer from your cells? Now sure about 90% of players would face the right direction but there are also other objects you could say that would make more sense such as "face big cage", "face your cells", "face vip cell", or "face the vending machines".

 

How are we overexaggerating the direness of the order? It doesn't seem like this is an awful problem and this thread was made literally to discuss if they were a valid order because an admin said they weren't (via my word, and mistake). It was brought up by posters in the thread discussing the validity of the orders since we found out that some people's compass always points north, making following directional orders much harder for them simply based on their own preference of how they want their minimap. IMO if someone has to change a setting based on preference to follow an order, it should not be allowed. On top of this, you're right it's not too hard but as I said earlier it gets abused a lot on the server.

 

The order doesn't cause much confusion at all. If a new type of order is given to the T's, they adapt and get used to it. The compass always pointing north will still tell you where the other directions are (Look at @Snootch 's example). Of course, if a player has to change their settings to play that's unreasonable, but no one has too. Like Caution said, if there's a bug in the player's client that sucks, but not our problem. You're overexaggerating it because this problem isn't that big of a deal. Yup strict CT's suck, is that your entire argument for this conversation?

[urpalerp]

Honestly, I don’t see the huge problem here and what’s causing so much trouble. I have also had it where my minimap has appeared pure black, but that white little arrow above the minimap is always there, and always points north. It’s essentially just a compass and as long as you know how to work a compass, you should be fine at following directional orders. I myself even give them and honestly not that many people r confused by the order. Also, sometimes an order like this for “confusion” could be used, like in Simon Says. There’s a use for everything and sometimes directional orders r also the easiest way for a ct to express a place they want the ts to look.

[Dom]

That "dark abyss" isn't what you should be looking at, or need to be looking at. That arrow facing up is North (as a compass would work), and it doesn't change it's location because North will stay North. I have the exact same minimap on some maps, it's just how it is and it's not a problem to look at.

 

there are 2 types of minimaps. one where the arrow points north and moves around the edge of the minimap when you turn and one where it is always pointing on top. the one with the arrow moving makes it easy to tell which direction you're facing. the one that stays pointing up (what Snootch has) makes it impossible to tell which direction you are facing if the minimap is glitched and all black because it depends on the player model on the actual minimap. those settings don't make the map rotate but the player model on the minimap which is the issue here.

 

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