Giving a freeday in first order without giving a freeday

[TheZZL]

I understand the title is a little bit confusing, so let me clarify. Someone takes first order and says "leave your cells", or they say "take 2,000 steps out of your cell and freeze". While it's not an actual freeday, they're indirectly giving one. This workaround has been on the server for a long time without opposition. The question is, are these types of orders allowed.

 

In my opinion, they shouldn't be restricted excessively. If someone gives that order I don't mind it, but if it's every round it should be stopped.

[Bacon]

In my opinion these orders should not be given during fo due to the fact that the first order you mentioned is unreasonable and the second is inadvertently giving a freeday, but these are just my thoughts.

[Dom]

this is the unnecessary confusion Error was talking about earlier. People look for every possible loophole to get around rules making it super confusing for new players and a pain for staff to have to add new rules for common sense things. The whole purpose of not allowing fd’s in fo is cause other CTs cant revoke them which leaves them powerless since they cant give alternative orders/warning shots. Saying take 2000 steps out or leave your cells pretty much does the same thing, i can rush you with a group of people, corner you and kill you while you cant do anything about it until fo is over or someone damages you.

I agree with Bacon that these are unreasonable orders along the lines of a fd and should not be allowed.

[darkspace44]

I agree these orders are absolute crazy, its basically like said loop hole and I'm sure people will always find loop holes with any order that is given so it would be very hard to write a rule to stop these loop holes unless I'm actually stupid.

[Lokibelowkey]

Its against the rules and its annoying. It is a freeday in every sense and it is an unreasonable order as there is no objective. any admins who see this happen need to punish and ban the people who do this in order to make sure it doesn't ruin the server more than it has already.

[TheZZL]

This is most likely unreasonable/confusing/giving a freeday, but any official response coming?

[fantastic]

I haven't had the opportunity to discuss this with the team yet, but what exactly are you expecting as a response . Freedays aren't defined in the rules, but it's common knowledge that it's an order where prisoners are free to do whatever they want. If the order is "leave your cells" or "take 2000 steps out of your cell", Ts are pretty much left to do whatever they want. It's been a long day but off the top of my head I can't think of any good way to eloquently phrase a modification to the rules which explicitly bans these "grey area" orders.

 

The above isn't the "official" response, but it's something to kickstart some conversation until the other ATs and I can talk about this.

[Cept For Her]

This is most likely unreasonable/confusing/giving a freeday, but any official response coming?

 

I wouldnt call it unreasonable as the example orders given can be followed and completed. Personally i would define them more as incomplete orders meaning that they are orders being given without a clear definition of an end goal for the order. Its not clear wether theyre trying to bring the ts to a location, give them a freeday, or just make them stay still for a second while they do a head count.

 

Personally I dont think this really needs to be defined in the rules because I think it should be common sense to just give an order that is clear and to the point, but if we need to add a rule imo it should be something similar to

“Guards must give complete orders. Complete orders have a clear, defined end goal for the Ts (freeday, location, freeze)”

[Chad]

So when a CT gives an order like this, do we as Admins need to say to give a complete order and then elaborate on the "defined end goal for the Ts (freeday, location, freeze)” part? I've heard these type of orders here and there and was always lost on what the correct response to give. @fantastic @Trazz @Military_king

[fantastic]

So when a CT gives an order like this, do we as Admins need to say to give a complete order and then elaborate on the "defined end goal for the Ts (freeday, location, freeze)” part? I've heard these type of orders here and there and was always lost on what the correct response to give. @fantastic @Trazz @Military_king

 

No, admins can only enforce our current ruleset. If you feel this is against one of our rules you can ask them to give another order, but looking at our ruleset a reasonable order is defined as follows:

 

"Reasonable Orders - an order that is straightforward, clear, to the point, easy to understand, not meant to confuse or trick, and gives the prisoners enough time to follow."

 

The order "leave your cells" is a reasonable order and it doesn't seem to be breaking any other rules. We need some time to draft up a modification to the rules, so sit tight while we close this loophole.