JAILBREAK IS BEING RUINED

[Dominic]

Management in 2016 constantly preached "stay vanilla" and pretty much kept the server away from any type of plugins that would allow the server to sustain itself, such as a ratio control plugin. This wasn't really an issue at the time and most regulars in the community liked the mentality. The issue began when we raised the slot count. In 2016, Jailbreak was only a 24 slot server. That meant you were usually sitting around 8 CTs, assuming the server was full, less if it wasn't. This wasn't too many cooks in the kitchen and people could give orders, play a death-game on the side, and even fit in a casual conversation, all while not turning the server to chaos.

 

Under my management, we strayed away from the plugin free mentality and added plugins like Ratio Control, CT Lockout and First Order. (not claiming credit, it was just during a time where I was managing the server) I believe at first, these plugins helped drastically with the general atmosphere of the server. The slot increase by that point was already enough to make the server a bit too chaotic. Over time, I think some of these plugins stopped working fully or at all and may still not work. Nonetheless, I think they were good additions and I actually suggested that all of them get a buff, or a version two. My exact ideas are foggy but given the slots had increased again, it made sense.

 

I got on the server maybe a week or two ago. It was pretty close to being full, there were a couple of admins online, and nothing was really wrong. There were no freekillers, no one was mic spamming, CTs were pretty good, etc. However, I was just trying to give orders while these CTs were doing multiple other tasks on mic (ordering one T around, a death-game, casual conversation, etc.) and no one could hear me. No one was doing anything wrong, it's just the fact that there were too many cooks in the kitchen. This actually prompted me to ask in the staff Discord about what plans were in the works for improving voice chat, to which I got a pleasing answer.

 

Slot count is a big factor here, I'd highly suggest we don't touch that though. It's the only thing keeping us up there with other servers and if we lower it we'll probably have no chance of beating them out. A push to return the server to it's old ways is great and all, but the community has changed too drastically. I can make a clear distinction between the quality of Ts and CTs alike from 2016 to now. Back then it was a more tight-knit group of regulars whereas now you have many new people joining and probably a lot of younger people too, who most likely don't have the best comprehension skills. Encouraging everyone to break away from their tryhard mentalities is a good start though, everyone should really loosen up, it's roleplay.

 

Regarding the whole admin thing, (sorry Gumline - we're not shaving off 6 months because you believe you can save us) sometimes it doesn't even matter if an admin is there, like I was mentioning earlier. Everyone could be abiding by the rules fully and the server is still chaotic. More admins is always better though, so encouraging fit regulars to apply is always something anyone can do to help. Making a rule because something is going wrong on the server or because something could be better makes sense. In regards specifically to eliminating freedays and special orders during First Order, just thinking about it, it would totally reduce general chaos. This also wasn't a rule of any sort prior, so blaming that on admins makes no sense.

 

While I advocated against a warden system because of the fact that it could be what's keeping us up so high, I do think buffs to plugins like First Order can assist us while keeping our "brand" we have. I also think some of the other ideas regarding voice chat (not sure what's public and what's not) could do us good without harming the server's style. There's just too many people at this point for any round to go completely smoothly without constant admin oversight or plugins that keep things somewhat orderly. Like I was getting at earlier, this doesn't mean slot count is the problem, it just means we have to adjust to that slot count.

 

I didn't really think the original post in this thread was too helpful as it didn't really address any specific problems and present solutions, I like where the thread has begun to go though. The Jailbreak managers (and the managers for any server, really) seem very willing to listen to your concerns and act on them. I actually really like the style of management the server is under right now, personally. The highest Jailbreak has ever been at is I believe the high 50s on Gametracker, so it's not as if the server is in some ditch. We're not far off from where we've always been and I think you guys can go beyond that, help from the regulars is very crucial though.

 

I honestly just sat down and wrote what I was feeling based on where the thread was going, but I don't think I addressed what sparked the thread. The change, from my perspective, makes perfect sense. If there's more people on, there's more of a chance for things to get out of hand. Therefore, it'd be beneficial for just one person to lead the first 60 seconds, to get things in order. It sounds pretty logical, at least based on the reasoning I'm interpreting. Orders at the beginning of the round are really important because all the CTs are getting into positions and gunning for the secrets, so chaos at the beginning caused by multiple orders being given could ruin the round entirely.

 

I think "JAILBREAK IS BEING RUINED" is a bit of an exaggeration, but I'd encourage everyone to voice their own opinions on that.

[kabLe]

Most of it comes down to playerbase in my opinion. The new generation doesn't value the same things as my generation or the generation before. I think part of the reason jailbreak feels so cancer at the moment is the mentality of these new CTs to be honest. It feels like every time I've joined the server over the last year and a half it's been a bunch of squeaky try hards when in reality the CTs main function on the server is to provide entertainment through creative orders, not say 'go to x. Crouch walk the whole way' or some other cancer crap order. In addition to that; I think that the way some of the newer T's play is absolutely soul sucking. Don't be afraid to rebel or volunteer for suicide death games like skeet shooting. Return the server to its roots of spontaneous fun and ridiculous moments based on organic situational humor and we'll be golden.

 

Unfortunately with how sweaty some of these children and teens alike are we're probably better off playing the lottery at this point.

 

Something else I'd like to bring up is the slow creep towards being like every other server. Obviously as an AT I'm in position to make change on that front and will be more vocal about some issues I've seen over the last year or so. We're committed to making the server great but we can only do so much. We need regs and admins a like to reset the culture on the server or all you'll see is a slow slide towards being the next tango or who the fuck ever.

 

Our generation and the one before it weren't eating tide pods for internet fame. You will never get back to the roots.

[crazedkangaroo]

Most of it comes down to playerbase in my opinion. The new generation doesn't value the same things as my generation or the generation before. I think part of the reason jailbreak feels so cancer at the moment is the mentality of these new CTs to be honest. It feels like every time I've joined the server over the last year and a half it's been a bunch of squeaky try hards when in reality the CTs main function on the server is to provide entertainment through creative orders, not say 'go to x. Crouch walk the whole way' or some other cancer crap order. In addition to that; I think that the way some of the newer T's play is absolutely soul sucking. Don't be afraid to rebel or volunteer for suicide death games like skeet shooting. Return the server to its roots of spontaneous fun and ridiculous moments based on organic situational humor and we'll be golden.

 

Encouraging everyone to break away from their tryhard mentalities is a good start though, everyone should really loosen up, it's roleplay.

 

I think the current mentality of individuals choosing to play CT is the biggest issue with JB and restricting this behavior has helped JB move in the right direction.

 

If you look at the past few discussions about JB, the majority of them have been people asking, or complaining, about rules and changes that restrict them from killing Ts. The two that come to mind are No Cardinal directions and Floor is Lava. These are two recent things that CTs were doing to intentionally confuse Ts and rack up their own kill count. The mentality of a CT where all they see out of the Ts is another kill is what is causing boring round after boring round where Ts are crouch walking backward while knifing the ground from one point to another.

 

I think that several of the recent rule changes to restrict CTs from doing things that only net them kills is a step in the right direction, not the wrong one. I remember in the past I was unable to join JB for more than a round or two because of how bad these situations used to be but as the rules have developed to account for these new players I have been able to join more. One change that helped me return to JB was the addition of Death Games at the two-minute mark. This gives CTs and Ts something to look forward to and stay alive for. My favorite part of JB is death games and I try and partake in any volunteer death game I can because they are fun for both sides. Sure it sucks to lose and die but its rewarding to win. Though, I am not advocating for death games to be allowed any earlier than this mark, I simply wanted to point out a recent change I liked.

 

As far as the discussion that this thread was intended to be about, I think the rule change will do a lot of good for the server when its high pop. As stated earlier a lot of the rule changes have been made to restrict the CTs from causing chaos to feed for kills and on the surface, this rule may look to do the same but I think it will actually provide more control to the CTs. Giving one CT a bit more control over the server will push all the CTs to better work together and create a more enjoyable environment for both sides.

 

While I wish I could go back and play the JB I played so many years ago, I don't believe trying to return the server to the way it used to be is viable. Moving forward with the community that is present is what has been happening and is what should continue to happen.

 

Hop on CT and try to create an environment that you want the server to have.

[Kataoka]

Our generation and the one before it weren't eating tide pods for internet fame. You will never get back to the roots.

 

This generation is a bunch of people mic spamming (ape noises, screaming, you can name it) and at the point of playing jailbreak for so long you become pro-abortion. There are the select few JB regs who actually are decent and try to help people and calm it down, but in general its just nightmare (yes i know I can deal w/ it myself but when there 5+ people that are talking you don't know who is doing it, and if its one of out the many, I generally don't want to punish the people who aren't doing anything)

 

But in all reality, I think the 60 seconds FO is a bit long for one CT to be controlling it the entire because some people don't use it to their full potential and will just wait it out giving one order (as of what i've seen so far). I think with 30+ people on instead of CT first order being 60 we should push back the time that Ts are muted for to 3. This generally gives the Ts more time to control the round. If I'm gonna be unrealistic I think it would be much better for Ts to just not be able to talk at all because for the most part give nothing special besides just being stupid half the time.

 

Some of you might say "But why have those few ruin it for everyone" but at the same time its happen with other things people constantly abusing it, and in my opinion the Ts being able to talk is a privilege.

 

Now as the for the JB heading down in the wrong direction, maybe for an old player, yes it can seem that way, but the server as I've heard is trying to be our own server and not follow other types servers and I have only seen JB grow since these changes. For the CTs working as a team, in my opinion has kinda become less and less because like crazed said "The sweaty CTs" are doing anything to get their kills and KD up. When I play CT and witness the "sweaty CTs" play they will walk up to a T who disobeyed the order and left click backstab them for 90. Yes it is fair considering a warning shot can be 1-99 but at the same time if the player took even 10 fall damage it will instantly kill them even if they obeyed every order. The warning shot damage frame is way too much and people will try to do the most damage so it kills the T, or makes it easier (if they aren't able to get medic)

[LivingLikeLarry]

I personally have to agree with some of the things you have said. The !FO time being a minute is pretty long time for one CT to make all the orders. It also does not give the other CTs time to give orders. A lot of the new players also play CT and them giving bad orders can really fuck over the other CTs. Although !fo can be bad it also has its own strengths, the fo can stop other CTs from conflicting and turning a simple task into a complete shit hole. In the end though I do think that the fo timer should be somewhere in the middle between short and long. As a very active JB reg lots of the CTs play for themselves which even sometimes includes kills and their personal KD. Sometimes even I can get sucked into this. CTs need to work together to let the Ts have fun and play games while also enforcing and doing their job.

[TheZZL]

Most of it comes down to playerbase in my opinion. The new generation doesn't value the same things as my generation or the generation before. I think part of the reason jailbreak feels so cancer at the moment is the mentality of these new CTs to be honest. It feels like every time I've joined the server over the last year and a half it's been a bunch of squeaky try hards when in reality the CTs main function on the server is to provide entertainment through creative orders, not say 'go to x. Crouch walk the whole way' or some other cancer crap order. In addition to that; I think that the way some of the newer T's play is absolutely soul sucking. Don't be afraid to rebel or volunteer for suicide death games like skeet shooting. Return the server to its roots of spontaneous fun and ridiculous moments based on organic situational humor and we'll be golden.

 

Crouch walking orders haven't been popularized in months, and the last time I saw someone use them was @Gumline a week ago. The reason the "squeaky tryhards" are taking over the comms on CT is because we have a large portion of regulars who sit on CT side and don't like giving orders. They stay silent and force players who aren't necessarily comfortable giving orders to give orders.

 

As I mentioned in my original reply, even though I am also guilty of looking at a high pop server and not wanting to touch it, the admins still need to make sure the server is free of rule breakers and being honest when the population is high and there are no admins, I'd be willing to bet money at least 7/10 there is a rule-breaker or two that need to be taken care of to keep the server fun for everyone. We all dream of a utopian server where the CTs work together to accomplish a common goal and that's rather unrealistic with the current player base, but I believe we can definitely work towards a realistic goal of the staff working together as a team and going to the server in groups so we can have each other's backs. I see it in a server like TTT all the time where the admins naturally work together cohesively and keep the server great for its players. It's something that's achievable and it's something we can start at any time.

I agree, one of the largest problems, in my opinion, is the lack of admins on Jailbreak. Of course, it's unrealistic to ask admins to be on at all times of the day, but generally admins either don't want to get on the server or have a hard time dealing with high population hours. I've also noticed a lot of the new admins not being able to control a server on their own at all, they have a massive hard time dealing out punishments/warnings and I think it would be smart for admins to try and get on together to avoid that.

 

 

[quote=crazedkangaroo;1030091

 

If you look at the past few discussions about JB, the majority of them have been people asking, or complaining, about rules and changes that restrict them from killing Ts. The two that come to mind are No Cardinal directions and Floor is Lava. These are two recent things that CTs were doing to intentionally confuse Ts and rack up their own kill count. The mentality of a CT where all they see out of the Ts is another kill is what is causing boring round after boring round where Ts are crouch walking backward while knifing the ground from one point to another.

 

One change that helped me return to JB was the addition of Death Games at the two-minute mark. This gives CTs and Ts something to look forward to and stay alive for. My favorite part of JB is death games and I try and partake in any volunteer death game I can because they are fun for both sides. Sure it sucks to lose and die but its rewarding to win. Though, I am not advocating for death games to be allowed any earlier than this mark, I simply wanted to point out a recent change I liked.

 

As far as the discussion that this thread was intended to be about, I think the rule change will do a lot of good for the server when its high pop. As stated earlier a lot of the rule changes have been made to restrict the CTs from causing chaos to feed for kills and on the surface, this rule may look to do the same but I think it will actually provide more control to the CTs. Giving one CT a bit more control over the server will push all the CTs to better work together and create a more enjoyable environment for both sides.

 

While I wish I could go back and play the JB I played so many years ago, I don't believe trying to return the server to the way it used to be is viable. Moving forward with the community that is present is what has been happening and is what should continue to happen.

 

Hop on CT and try to create an environment that you want the server to have.

 

The floor is lava order was one given to have some fun considering a lot of times we're stuck on maps with no mape-made deathgames, and a lot of the T side doesn't want to do a custom deathgame. So what we're left with is trying to make our own fun. "Floor is Lava" is not a confusing order when given properly, additionally a lot of the examples given in the thread by people who weren't able to witness it being originally given were confusing in it of themselves. Floor is Lava is an order you can still give as long as you explain it somewhat, and don't 1-tap people.

 

The cardinal orders, again, weren't orders intended to confuse people, it was an easier way to say "look at soccer" (Which happens to be through a wall so you can't see soccer). However, like other orders they were ruined by select people who abused it.

 

 

Some of you might say "But why have those few ruin it for everyone" but at the same time its happen with other things people constantly abusing it, and in my opinion the Ts being able to talk is a privilege.

 

Now as the for the JB heading down in the wrong direction, maybe for an old player, yes it can seem that way, but the server as I've heard is trying to be our own server and not follow other types servers and I have only seen JB grow since these changes. For the CTs working as a team, in my opinion has kinda become less and less because like crazed said "The sweaty CTs" are doing anything to get their kills and KD up. When I play CT and witness the "sweaty CTs" play they will walk up to a T who disobeyed the order and left click backstab them for 90. Yes it is fair considering a warning shot can be 1-99 but at the same time if the player took even 10 fall damage it will instantly kill them even if they obeyed every order. The warning shot damage frame is way too much and people will try to do the most damage so it kills the T, or makes it easier (if they aren't able to get medic)

This game mode is incredibly T-sided, and if the Cts aren't strict they'll get overrun easily. If you guys are consistently complaining about the lack of good Cts why are you de-incentivizing those that try by shitting on them constantly? This whole concept that these Cts are only strict for their KD is a far off one. I rarely see CTs talking about their KD at all, the hard-assness comes from not wanting to die so fast in the round.

 

As for your issue with the multiple mic-spammers, why not mute the T side, let the voice comms calm down, then a CT is gives an order, and then unmute the T side. I understand each situation isn't black and white like this, so why would it hurt for someone who didn't mic spam be muted for a minute in the admins' effort to find out who was actually mic spamming.

 

 

All in all, the main problems I see with Jailbreak currently are the lack of admins being online when it's neccesary and the voice chat. I feel like both of these problems can be remedied as long as we're able to re-motivate our admins to get back online the servers more often.

 

Actually speaking about the OP, I still feel like it's too early to decide if this is a good or bad feature. I've seen some good come from it already, because it does allow for some actual order to be setup. However, I agree with the sentiment the other regulars on this thread share, that we shouldn't be adding excessive restrictions and more structure to our server.

 

Edit: Now that i've been able to play for two days with the change, I have a few comments. For starters, I find it a little uneasy that when !FO is taken with 20+ players it lasts for 60 seconds. This means that most of the time the CTs and Ts get unmuted at the same time. I still don't know how I feel about that, but if you take !fo 5-10 seconds into the round the Ts can get unmuted before the rest of the Cts do. If we are planning on keeping this change I suggest having the CTs unmuted at a set time instead of it being dependant on whenever someone took !fo. This way the CTs can always be unmuted before the Ts do, which would generally (imo) cause less confusion.

[Kieran]

Sorry for intruding in these detailed jailbreak posts, but I'm struggling to get the whole "maintaining our brand" and "keeping things unique" argument that I've seen used ever since I get here. Hasn't been the first time I've talked about this.

 

I get it, as a player who played on Swoobles jailbreak for ~750 hours I know the process on SG jailbreak is a lot different. It's just dumb it seems a lot of people value originality over the actual quality of the server.

 

It seems like a LOT of people recently have been complaining about jailbreak here being absolute chaotic and unenjoyable to play. Numerous threads have popped up saying the same shit. Some of it might be the culture of the people who play there; I don't play jailbreak myself so I'm not too sure. I think its safe to say some of it though comes from the fact the system is designed to be chaotic (lack of warden/head figure, several CTs constantly giving orders, etc.).

 

The traditional jailbreak format prevents a lot of this unwanted chaos. One central figure promotes essentially the focus on one thing at a time (less chaos), with rebelling still being in the game. In theory it should also be much easier for admins to monitor as they don't have to focus on different CTs giving orders.

 

A lot of people seem to be in agreement jailbreak is going too "deathmatchy", and I don't think anyone would argue having more of a traditional system wouldn't do anything to help this.

 

So why aren't there changes? People, specifically JB staff, seem to be valuing the SG jailbreak brand more than the actual quality of the server. That's what seems to be killing the experience. If your number one priority is not to make the server the best quality for the players, you should reconsider your intentions.

 

You don't have to instantly swap the entire direction of jailbreak to the most traditional, warden-based jailbreak. But stop shooting down changes just because you want to maintain style. Make changes that will make the server environment and gamemode more enjoyable. That's what brings people back to keep playing.

[delirium]

Sorry for intruding in these detailed jailbreak posts, but I'm struggling to get the whole "maintaining our brand" and "keeping things unique" argument that I've seen used ever since I get here. Hasn't been the first time I've talked about this.

 

I get it, as a player who played on Swoobles jailbreak for ~750 hours I know the process on SG jailbreak is a lot different. It's just dumb it seems a lot of people value originality over the actual quality of the server.

 

It seems like a LOT of people recently have been complaining about jailbreak here being absolute chaotic and unenjoyable to play. Numerous threads have popped up saying the same shit. Some of it might be the culture of the people who play there; I don't play jailbreak myself so I'm not too sure. I think its safe to say some of it though comes from the fact the system is designed to be chaotic (lack of warden/head figure, several CTs constantly giving orders, etc.).

 

The traditional jailbreak format prevents a lot of this unwanted chaos. One central figure promotes essentially the focus on one thing at a time (less chaos), with rebelling still being in the game. In theory it should also be much easier for admins to monitor as they don't have to focus on different CTs giving orders.

 

A lot of people seem to be in agreement jailbreak is going too "deathmatchy", and I don't think anyone would argue having more of a traditional system wouldn't do anything to help this.

 

So why aren't there changes? People, specifically JB staff, seem to be valuing the SG jailbreak brand more than the actual quality of the server. That's what seems to be killing the experience. If your number one priority is not to make the server the best quality for the players, you should reconsider your intentions.

 

You don't have to instantly swap the entire direction of jailbreak to the most traditional, warden-based jailbreak. But stop shooting down changes just because you want to maintain style. Make changes that will make the server environment and gamemode more enjoyable. That's what brings people back to keep playing.

 

No u

 

Just because some people are complaining doesn't mean they should be listened to. The loudest voice isn't always the best voice. Despite the complaints the server is doing well. People complaining that the server is becoming too 'deathmatchy' should take a step back and think about what they and the other regulars can do to push back against that culture. What do you want us to do? Make a rule that says T's aren't allowed to rebel before x time lol?

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand about doing things the 'steam-gamers' way either. What's the point in submitting to the pressure from new regs that come and suggest things be exactly like their old server? They left x jailbreak server for a reason who's to say that they won't turn around and be dissatisfied with ours at that point? I appreciate the feedback but I think that the server is doing well for itself at this point and the changes we have in the works will continue to improve the experience without becoming just like every other jailbreak server.

[Kieran]

No u

 

Just because some people are complaining doesn't mean they should be listened to. The loudest voice isn't always the best voice. Despite the complaints the server is doing well. People complaining that the server is becoming too 'deathmatchy' should take a step back and think about what they and the other regulars can do to push back against that culture. What do you want us to do? Make a rule that says T's aren't allowed to rebel before x time lol?

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand about doing things the 'steam-gamers' way either. What's the point in submitting to the pressure from new regs that come and suggest things be exactly like their old server? They left x jailbreak server for a reason who's to say that they won't turn around and be dissatisfied with ours at that point? I appreciate the feedback but I think that the server is doing well for itself at this point and the changes we have in the works will continue to improve the experience without becoming just like every other jailbreak server.

 

That's a very respectable position and I understand the whole "just because the people are complaining doesn't mean they are right" explanation. It's just taking ideas from other servers sometimes doesn't mean you're going to become an exact copycat of that server. There's a lot different about SG, and taking the idea of a warden/head guard/other ideas from other servers won't kill the uniqueness. If I made a suggestion that got rejected, I would rather see an explanation on why it would not work on this server rather than just saying other servers do it so we shouldn't.

[TheZZL]

Edit: Now that i've been able to play for two days with the change, I have a few comments. For starters, I find it a little uneasy that when !FO is taken with 20+ players it lasts for 60 seconds. This means that most of the time the CTs and Ts get unmuted at the same time. I still don't know how I feel about that, but if you take !fo 5-10 seconds into the round the Ts can get unmuted before the rest of the Cts do. If we are planning on keeping this change I suggest having the CTs unmuted at a set time instead of it being dependant on whenever someone took !fo. This way the CTs can always be unmuted before the Ts do, which would generally (imo) cause less confusion.

 

This is something I find important concerning the FO changes, and I think it I should re-post it considering it may have gotten lost in the jumble of text I wrote.