A Jailbreak ELO System

[Phoenix_]

Why an ELO system?

 

Having an ELO system on our Jailbreak server would fundamentally change the meta of the server, or essentially change how our players play on the servers while keeping the chaotic atmosphere that makes Steam-Gamers Jailbreak what it is. There's no question that the current state of the server needs to be changed because it seems that players are wanting to play CT less and less, and this is an urgent problem that needs to be changed for the future prosperity of the server.

 

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Prisoner ELO System

 

I got this idea once the T ranks were reset because I think this would be an interesting new way of having the Ts ranked. This, and the CT ELO, are going to be rather similar to how our Retakes & 1v1 servers work in terms of ranking players. For the prisoners, the rank system itself would remain the same, and players would not be assigned a competitive rank such as in Retakes & 1v1, this change is only to how points are scored. I think it would be interesting to change up how Ts earn points, and it would go as follows:

• +2 Points per CT killed.

• +1 or .5 Point(s) per T round win. (Depending on if the plugin author chose whole numbers or decimals for point tracking)

• -1 Point per death.

• -2 Points per CT round win.



I'll explain the -1 Point per death to headshot since it's a bit odd. Yes, headshots can be total luck if a spray goes wild, but the point is to make oneself hard to kill and avoid being a one-shot kill for the CT.

 

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Guard ELO System

 

This is the BIG part of the change. I think that having CT rank based on playtime alone isn't good in ranking CTs based on ability because time played is not always equivalent to the ability of the CT. Also, there are many high school and college students who play the servers who are flooded with work outside the Summer season who simply can't compete with the younger crowd who can just dump hours into the server. Basing CT ranks off the following I think would

be a better determinate of the skill of CTs and provide more incentive of playing CT since someone who is more skilled but has less time can compete with someone less skilled with more free time.:

• +.5 Point per T killed.

• +4/5 Points per CT round win.

• -1 Point per death.

• -1 Points per T round win.



Now, I can understand the concern over CTs farming for kills and the potential of stricter orders, warning shots, etc. But, I really don't think it's going to be as much of an issue people will make it out to be. This type of system has been brought up in the past but there were concerns over kill-hungry CTs just farming kills. I think now is a time more than ever the CT side needs change because more recently the CT team, no matter the players has generally been getting DECIMATED on a lot of maps, and it's time for a change, even if experimental. I discussed this in part with @Bacon today, and he expressed the same concerns as above. I understand it may be a concern, but I think it would bring more benefit at least to test a system such as this even if the plugin is a lot of work and may fail, I think the risk here is worth the potential award. On top of this, I believe that rewarding the most for a CT round win will encourage team play, cohesive guards, and good orders.

 

As far as how the new CT ranks would go, here is a primitive version of what I thought up:

• Rank 1, Private - 0 points

• Rank 2, Sergeant - 90 points, 6 hrs of 15 points/hour

• Rank 3, Officer - 360 points, 1 day of 15 points/hour

• Rank 4, Lieutenant - 720 points, 2 days of 15 points/hour

• Rank 5, Captain - 1800 points, 5 days of 15 points/hour

• Rank 6, Major - 2880 points, 8 days of 15 points/hour

• Rank 7, Colonel - 4320 points, 12 days of 15 points/hour

• Rank 8, General - 5400 points, 15 days of 15 points/hour

 

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This would, of course, be a huge change if this were to happen, so I encourage JB staff and regulars alike comment on this if you think it's an idea with merit or an idea that should be abandoned.

[Trazz]

Haven’t read through everything but I’ve skimmed over the points. Why not increase the CT round win points to 5 and lower the kill points to .5. It’ll promote for them to rather play out the round than hunt for kills.

[Phoenix_]

Haven’t read through everything but I’ve skimmed over the points. Why not increase the CT round win points to 5 and lower the kill points to .5. It’ll promote for them to rather play out the round than hunt for kills.

 

I agree. All these values are totally subject to change, just wanted to get some sort of baseline out there.

[20 scrolls]

As someone that would grind out ranks before reset I would def start playing CT again if a system like this was in place, and add something like models as a reward (suggested in another thread) it would def start bringing players over to play CT

[Infinityward]

Let me preface this is not a official response, I'm just giving my thoughts on this.

 

This system as you suggested would move us more towards a death match style server. This system incentives CTs and Ts alike to go for as many kills as possible, this is something that I don't think is good for our server. I'd like to start moving us more towards a role play style instead of who can get the most kills in a map. No matter what the values are, the players will go for as many kills as possible. I agree our CTs are being decimated, and we're working on a few things to help them, but I don't think adding an ELO system would fix this.

[Dominic]

Just another "personal opinions" post. I actually already expressed most of this in the staff Discord since we had a similar discussion, but I'll put down a few of my thoughts.

 

It's a cool idea on paper, but realistically, guards shouldn't be rewarded for killing prisoners in my eyes. The prisoners have a goal to overtake the prison and kill the guards, implying that they need to kill. The guards simply have to keep the prison in order, not implying the need to kill. They oftentimes win by doing just that, which would previously end in a round draw, now it's a guard win. Giving them an incentive to kill people removes any desire to partake in fun activities and pushes people away from the actual point of Jailbreak. At the end of the day, this is still roleplay, and while you may fix the ratio with this change I think you're taking the roleplay down with it. What's the point of doing a fun order or a cool activity? Just give everyone intricate orders until they all slip up and are susceptible to being killed.

 

The ratio is an issue, but you're risking the entire gameplay of the server moving forward to fix it like this and I think we should be looking for other solutions. I think we're already essentially on the brink of being a full on team deathmatch and a CT ranking system such as that one would push us over that edge.

[Phoenix_]

Let me preface this is not a official response, I'm just giving my thoughts on this.

 

This system as you suggested would move us more towards a death match style server. This system incentives CTs and Ts alike to go for as many kills as possible, this is something that I don't think is good for our server. I'd like to start moving us more towards a role play style instead of who can get the most kills in a map. No matter what the values are, the players will go for as many kills as possible. I agree our CTs are being decimated, and we're working on a few things to help them, but I don't think adding an ELO system would fix this.

 

I totally disagree. As it stands right now, we can't get much closer toward a deathmatch style server. The rounds on maps with well-known secrets last all of 2 minutes tops because the CTs get wiped out so fast, there are too little CTs to gain map control, or a combination thereof. If we had kills worth .5 points and a round win for CTs worth 5 points, CTs would not go for as many kills as possible and will do their best to get a round win, whether that mean giving better/more orders, working with teammates, etc. On top of this, CTs already go for as many kills as possible for a few reasons. One, they have to because ratio on maps like razor are so terrible, they have no choice but to be trigger happy or they just want kills for their K/D. I think this system will have the adverse effect of what you say and actually push towards CTs working together to get round wins if we provide a far heavier award for getting round wins as opposed to kills.

 

If you're that dissatisfied with the kill portion of this, it may be a good idea to look into if it's possible to only reward points for kills against Ts with Primaries, Ts who have shot a gun, and/or Ts who have damaged a CT. I know it's possible to determine if a T shoots a certain gun because our LR plugin does this. If they shoot a gun, they could be marked with something behind the scenes that rewards a CT for killing them.

 

Outside of that, I look forward to hearing about the other things being worked on to try and absolve this issue, and I hope to be able to give feedback when possible. I appreciate the response.

 

Just another "personal opinions" post. I actually already expressed most of this in the staff Discord since we had a similar discussion, but I'll put down a few of my thoughts.

 

It's a cool idea on paper, but realistically, guards shouldn't be rewarded for killing prisoners in my eyes. The prisoners have a goal to overtake the prison and kill the guards, implying that they need to kill. The guards simply have to keep the prison in order, not implying the need to kill. They oftentimes win by doing just that, which would previously end in a round draw, now it's a guard win. Giving them an incentive to kill people removes any desire to partake in fun activities and pushes people away from the actual point of Jailbreak. At the end of the day, this is still roleplay, and while you may fix the ratio with this change I think you're taking the roleplay down with it. What's the point of doing a fun order or a cool activity? Just give everyone intricate orders until they all slip up and are susceptible to being killed.

 

The ratio is an issue, but you're risking the entire gameplay of the server moving forward to fix it like this and I think we should be looking for other solutions. I think we're already essentially on the brink of being a full on team deathmatch and a CT ranking system such as that one would push us over that edge.

 

I believe that guards keeping order implies needing to kill. If Ts get guns and try to kill CTs, the CTs NEED to kill them to maintain order. Giving them an incentive to kill people incentives them from just sitting in one spot the whole round or not just going off and doing their own thing. Fun activities will certainly still be a thing on the server, and I feel like this change would aid the roleplay aspect because often times now we don't even get to the roleplay aspect because the CTs are wiped out so quickly. I disagree with the roleplay being taken away if this change were to be made as stated in the last sentence. If you make the rewards for getting kills minimal in comparison to round wins, there will be MORE incentive to give fun orders to let Ts rebel but also reward the CTs for keeping the prison in order. There are CTs now already who give intricate orders until they fuck up and get shot. There are CTs now who will warning shot at the slightest transgression .5 seconds after the order is given. Point being, there will be dickhead CTs no matter the system that's implemented, and that's the nature of the beast.

 

As stated in my reply to Infinity, I think this would do the opposite and push us away from the deathmatch server we hope to avoid. As also stated in the OP, I think that taking a big risk to try and revamp the server where much change is needed is worth trying, even if it's not this suggestion. I'm honestly just tired of the same bullshit on a broken record player and months of "if someone thinks of something to fix this problem, please suggest it." and then not many impactful suggestions come by, and even fewer are implemented. I thought of an idea, and I put it on the table. If it doesn't go anywhere, oh well, but it's something I think can genuinely help the server.

[Infinityward]

I totally disagree. As it stands right now, we can't get much closer toward a deathmatch style server. The rounds on maps with well-known secrets last all of 2 minutes tops because the CTs get wiped out so fast, there are too little CTs to gain map control, or a combination thereof. If we had kills worth .5 points and a round win for CTs worth 5 points, CTs would not go for as many kills as possible and will do their best to get a round win, whether that mean giving better/more orders, working with teammates, etc. On top of this, CTs already go for as many kills as possible for a few reasons. One, they have to because ratio on maps like razor are so terrible, they have no choice but to be trigger happy or they just want kills for their K/D. I think this system will have the adverse effect of what you say and actually push towards CTs working together to get round wins if we provide a far heavier award for getting round wins as opposed to kills.

 

If you're that dissatisfied with the kill portion of this, it may be a good idea to look into if it's possible to only reward points for kills against Ts with Primaries, Ts who have shot a gun, and/or Ts who have damaged a CT. I know it's possible to determine if a T shoots a certain gun because our LR plugin does this. If they shoot a gun, they could be marked with something behind the scenes that rewards a CT for killing them.

 

Outside of that, I look forward to hearing about the other things being worked on to try and absolve this issue, and I hope to be able to give feedback when possible. I appreciate the response.

 

 

 

I believe that guards keeping order implies needing to kill. If Ts get guns and try to kill CTs, the CTs NEED to kill them to maintain order. Giving them an incentive to kill people incentives them from just sitting in one spot the whole round or not just going off and doing their own thing. Fun activities will certainly still be a thing on the server, and I feel like this change would aid the roleplay aspect because often times now we don't even get to the roleplay aspect because the CTs are wiped out so quickly. I disagree with the roleplay being taken away if this change were to be made as stated in the last sentence. If you make the rewards for getting kills minimal in comparison to round wins, there will be MORE incentive to give fun orders to let Ts rebel but also reward the CTs for keeping the prison in order. There are CTs now already who give intricate orders until they fuck up and get shot. There are CTs now who will warning shot at the slightest transgression .5 seconds after the order is given. Point being, there will be dickhead CTs no matter the system that's implemented, and that's the nature of the beast.

 

As stated in my reply to Infinity, I think this would do the opposite and push us away from the deathmatch server we hope to avoid. As also stated in the OP, I think that taking a big risk to try and revamp the server where much change is needed is worth trying, even if it's not this suggestion. I'm honestly just tired of the same bullshit on a broken record player and months of "if someone thinks of something to fix this problem, please suggest it." and then not many impactful suggestions come by, and even fewer are implemented. I thought of an idea, and I put it on the table. If it doesn't go anywhere, oh well, but it's something I think can genuinely help the server.

 

Just because it can't get much closer to a deathmatch style server doesn't mean we should encourage it and move even closer to a dm server. The idea that "CTs would not go for as many kills as possible and will do their best to get a round win" doesn't make sense. If the CTs kill all the Ts then they get points for kills & points for winning the round, as opposed to just winning the round. I don't see how this will bring anything but a full on deathmatch. Going back to what Dom said, why do a fun deathgame or do fun orders?, when you can give them intricate orders to get kills.

[Phoenix_]

Just because it can't get much closer to a deathmatch style server doesn't mean we should encourage it and move even closer to a dm server. In fact we're trying to move away from that, rewarding guards for killing prisoners will not help this. The idea that "CTs would not go for as many kills as possible and will do their best to get a round win" doesn't make sense. If the CTs kill all the Ts then they get points for kills & points for winning the round, as opposed to letting the time run out.

 

How doesn't it make sense? If the points for kills is .5 and a round win is 4 points or 5 points, it will take either 8 or 10 kills in a round simply to match the number of points of a round win. Overall, as a unit, this change would encourage the CTs to work as a team, even if most of the kills go to the top 2 or 3 CTs like it always has. The main goal of this idea is to try and get CTs out of their hidey holes and actually enforce orders effectively. The CTs shouldn't have to rely on the round time running out to get a round win. If a group of CTs is efficiently giving and enforcing orders, they will get to LRs at a reasonable point in the round and finish the round before the round timer runs up. I honestly feel like the fear of moving more towards a deathmatch-like server is totally exaggerated here and it would, as I said, move away from that with this concept. It's very clear we're on two different pages, and I honestly don't see this idea going anywhere with 2 managers individually disagreeing already, but it is what it is.

 

To your edit- Well with your argument it would make even more sense to do fun deathgames or fun orders because Ts will easily rebel and be more free kills, right?

 

EDIT-

Update: Changed the OP so that headshot kills are no longer factored in, the value for a kill on CT is halved, and round win value is upped to 4 or 5.

 

@Dominic @Infinityward @Bacon If the aspect of kills equating to points was removed and points on CT were completely reliant on round wins/losses would this idea become more viable in your guys' eyes?

[Tagwrack]

The idea of an elo system for CT's would be a great addition for jb to increase the number of people playing CT however if this were to go through, most if not all the CT's will become strict and give warning shots for the littlest things. I'm not gonna speak for the JB community but in my experience when a CT becomes strict asf it ruins the game mode and most people want to just disconnect after a couple of rounds. Even if the concept of getting points off kills were to be removed people would still be strict and do whatever they can to win the game and gain points. I understand that its something CT's can already do but if this system were to be implemented it will fix 1 problem and create another. Like @Dominic said it would remove the idea of fun orders and death games and still would become more of a deathmatch environment.