The "CT Incentive" Dillema

[sWz]

Recently an overwhelmingly loud conversation has arisen on how we can perfect the current format of JB. Ideally, a utopian format would make T-side more fun and interesting than CT, with a focus on rebelling and gun play through frantic gunfights and desperate secret rushes utilizing vents and teleports to give positional advantages, while incentivizing players to master CT side by giving entertaining and fun orders while still maintaining order in the prison and still giving T's room to rebel.

 

The issue is in order for T-side to be at its' most enjoyable, there has to be multiple competent CT's doing the aforementioned entertaining orders while nudging opportunities towards the T's and maintaining order.

 

Currently, this simply doesn't happen often enough. While I, and a few others still find some enjoyment in playing the side, it's hard to argue that it outweighs getting dicked 80% of the rounds because of having braindead neanderthals for teammates who camp armory and bait towards the T's.

 

There are two solutions to these two problems, of which the first is a must and the second is easier said than done:

 

1. Raise the bar for entry on CT side; this can be done by adding a minimum of 25 T points or a minimum time requirement of 2 hours or so to get a rough idea of how the prison should be run.

 

This might seem obvious at first, until you realize that a lack of people who are good at playing the side isn't the biggest part of this issue (Yes, inexperienced players do still ruin CT a bit, but I'll elaborate on why the blame doesn't lie with them for the most part in the next paragraph). There are dozens of regulars who can play CT side pretty much perfectly, but don't want to because they no longer find enjoyment in playing the side. That's why, first we need to implement the following:

 

2. Add a non-exploitable, actually rewarding incentive for CT's to master the side and play it best to match the "ideal utopian format".

 

I've seen lots of members berate the competent regulars that say "trash CT's", by saying how hypocritical it is that they criticize the CT's, but refuse to play the side themselves. This is not an issue with the regulars. No system should have to guilt-trip people of competence to doing something they don't have fun doing. Adding an incentive makes this a non-issue, but then we get into why this is such a difficult problem to solve.

 

Alright, so now we've pinpointed the problem and I've heard the higher-ups are working towards a solution towards this. Now we start to notice how troubling it is to implement a "non-exploitable, actually rewarding incentive for CT's to master the side and play it best to match the 'ideal utopian format'".

 

Let's go down the list with the possible systems that have been suggested, already implemented, or ones I've just thought of in the shower;

 

1. Ranks based on time played.

 

This is already in JB, and it's clear no one gives a shit. If anything it's a tag that screams "I'm a control freak". Even if people did care, it would encourage people to play the side but not master it.

 

2. Double or even triple credits while playing CT.

 

This might encourage people to play CT, but again, it doesn't encourage them to master it. Credit farming shouldn't be a worry as it's already a non-issue on T-side. However, the biggest problem with this system is that credits are worth as much as pubes. Making them worth anything (making more cosmetics) would require more annoying obstructions to gameplay, more stupid ass anime models to download for new players, and lower FPS. This is a dead end solution due to that fact alone.

 

3. Ranks based on a CT point system.

 

How would CT's acquire points? You can't give CT's points for killing a rebel, because JB is a lot like Airsoft, it's largely trust based in that you call when you're hit in Airsoft, and you only kill people who aren't following orders in JB. The system can't determine if a T was killed fairly or if a bullet actually hit someone in Airsoft. You also can't give CT's points for winning rounds, as recently (for some fucking reason), CT's win the round by running down the clock. They can also win rounds by eliminating all of the T's. Both of these will encourage secret/armory camping, boring and super strict orders, and probably more kill-hungry CT's that will tryhard-strive for points. Much like systems 1 & 2, this is a dead end.

 

4. Ranks based on a voting system of who the T's liked the best as an order giver; at the end of each round, the orange text menu at the left side first asks; "Who did you like the MOST this round on CT?", then, "Who did you like the LEAST this round on CT?"; perhaps giving the most highly rated CT's perks like small health increases or very slight speed increases. Maybe even giving horribly rated CT's very slight speed and health decreases.

 

This is the best idea I've been able to come up with personally, but it's far from perfect. On paper, this sounds like a reasonable thing to do. If the T's want orders in the utopian format, they should vote for CT's that follow it. It gives them a more enjoyable time on the server, and also rewards the CT for making the server rebel and T-side friendly. Unfortunately, as you probably guessed, in practice, this system has many flaws; the main one being that it's very exploitable. Friends can vote for their friends, and people who have personal beef won't vote honestly on the quality of orders, but rather how much they dislike them. If a lot of people want to fuck someone over, they can repeatedly vote the person they personally dislike as the worst CT, and decimate their status. This is why I emphasized maybe in giving badly rated CT's nerfs if this was ever put into place.

 

So that's my 20 page college essay about a CS:GO roleplay server gone deathmatch that I wrote in about an hour at 12:30 am. A complete waste of time? Probably. I'd treat this as a thread for discussing suggestions of an incentive that follows the "utopian format". Please, the server is in desperate need of one.

 

TL;DR You gotta read the whole thing to really understand this problem. Sorry

[TheZZL]

A lot of the concerns in this thread were discussed for a long time during a JB staff meeting that happened today. I won't. be commenting on anything specific as it's not my place, but the managers have said before (And they're kept on their promise) that something will be coming soon. It's all I have to say because it's what I've said for the past 3 large JB discussion threads, it's coming and we just have to wait out the "storm". Also, the CT-point voting feature is cool, but it will absolutely be abused.

 

 

You also can't give CT's points for winning rounds, as recently (for some fucking reason), CT's win the round by running down the clock. \

 

I just wanted to comment on this and say this was changed to properly reflect the wins and losses for the server. The CT's job is to control the prison, give orders, and stomp out rebellion. So if the round wins in a draw, theoretically it means they did their job properly.

[Benzene]

I stand with TheZZL on this one. There was a Jailbreak staff meeting last night, and a lot of topics and ideas were brought up for discussion. Most of us seem to agree that although many may think that the "CTs are bad" and "we need better CTs", Dominic said it best: it's simply just a phase that will pass. Eventually we will go back to having fine ratios. Our entire Jailbreak system is focused more in death match style rather than role play, which is why maps like Razor are so popular among the community and probably one of the reasons why many people have chosen to stick with our server /'d implementing ideas that would increase the role play aspect of the devfer might not bode too well with the players.

 

I will say this, however: the higher ups and the Jailbreak managers have been working very hard to implement new ideas, suggestions, and plugins into the server to better the players' overall experience. There were many ideas suggested, and a few will be in place in the near future. We are working to deincentivize playing the T side, and trying to push more people towards playing CT, and there are many ideas floating around that topic as well.

 

Edit: I will however respond to some of your points.

 

1. Raising the bar for entry onto CT side.

I actually was the one who brought this suggestion up, and it was swiftly rejected. While you may think that making a point requirement would make "better CTs", it is entirely possible that people can just blindly get kills on T side but have absolutely no idea what they're doing. An example that was given yesterday was bubblez. Bubblez is a great CT and makes the server fun, but not good at getting T points. Why should we make someone who would be a good CT grind out T points? I'm also saying, however, that we have no idea if a new player is good at T or at CT. Giving them 30 minutes of playtime to play T, and then try out CT is good enough to let them decide whether or not they want to play T side or CT side.

 

2. Doubling or tripling credits.

I don't really see a problem with a credit multiplier, except for the fact that it doesn't really incentivize regulars to play CT side. Sure, newer players who want to get more credits to buy some cool stuff from the store might hop on CT and start playing, but most Jailbreak regulars have no use for credits anymore, having played long enough that they've bought everything that their hearts desire.

 

3. Point-based CT side.

I completely agree with you here, there's almost no good way to set up a point-based CT system, because it would definitely increased free kills, power-hungry and kill-hungry CTs, there would be was free days given, more of a tight ship run, and it would overall not make the server as fun anymore. The best we have right now are the time ranks, which as you said really don't do that much.

 

4. Perks for "better" CTs.

I also agree with what you're saying here, and I can see where you're coming from. People can vote on the "best" CT and that CT would receive possible small perks, and encourage other CTs to be better. However, as you pointed out, there is a massive flaw in this and that is simply exploitation. There are so many ways for that to be exploited, including friends voting for friends, regulars voting for regulars in an attempt to get a free day. One common scenario I could see is "hey Benzene, I'll vote you best CT if you give me a free day next round" and this kind of devalues the entire system.

 

Overall, I really like the ideas you're putting out there, but a lot of them have some flaws and issues that are hard to overcome. Like I said, the Jailbreak managers and higher ups are discussing new changes and plugins that may be implemented in the near future, so keep your eye out for changelogs.

[sWz]

I stand with TheZZL on this one. There was a Jailbreak staff meeting last night, and a lot of topics and ideas were brought up for discussion. Most of us seem to agree that although many may think that the "CTs are bad" and "we need better CTs", Dominic said it best: it's simply just a phase that will pass. Eventually we will go back to having fine ratios. Our entire Jailbreak system is focused more in death match style rather than role play, which is why maps like Razor are so popular among the community and probably one of the reasons why many people have chosen to stick with our server /'d implementing ideas that would increase the role play aspect of the devfer might not bode too well with the players.

 

I will say this, however: the higher ups and the Jailbreak managers have been working very hard to implement new ideas, suggestions, and plugins into the server to better the players' overall experience. There were many ideas suggested, and a few will be in place in the near future. We are working to deincentivize playing the T side, and trying to push more people towards playing CT, and there are many ideas floating around that topic as well.

 

Edit: I will however respond to some of your points.

 

1. Raising the bar for entry onto CT side.

I actually was the one who brought this suggestion up, and it was swiftly rejected. While you may think that making a point requirement would make "better CTs", it is entirely possible that people can just blindly get kills on T side but have absolutely no idea what they're doing. An example that was given yesterday was bubblez. Bubblez is a great CT and makes the server fun, but not good at getting T points. Why should we make someone who would be a good CT grind out T points? I'm also saying, however, that we have no idea if a new player is good at T or at CT. Giving them 30 minutes of playtime to play T, and then try out CT is good enough to let them decide whether or not they want to play T side or CT side.

 

2. Doubling or tripling credits.

I don't really see a problem with a credit multiplier, except for the fact that it doesn't really incentivize regulars to play CT side. Sure, newer players who want to get more credits to buy some cool stuff from the store might hop on CT and start playing, but most Jailbreak regulars have no use for credits anymore, having played long enough that they've bought everything that their hearts desire.

 

3. Point-based CT side.

I completely agree with you here, there's almost no good way to set up a point-based CT system, because it would definitely increased free kills, power-hungry and kill-hungry CTs, there would be was free days given, more of a tight ship run, and it would overall not make the server as fun anymore. The best we have right now are the time ranks, which as you said really don't do that much.

 

4. Perks for "better" CTs.

I also agree with what you're saying here, and I can see where you're coming from. People can vote on the "best" CT and that CT would receive possible small perks, and encourage other CTs to be better. However, as you pointed out, there is a massive flaw in this and that is simply exploitation. There are so many ways for that to be exploited, including friends voting for friends, regulars voting for regulars in an attempt to get a free day. One common scenario I could see is "hey Benzene, I'll vote you best CT if you give me a free day next round" and this kind of devalues the entire system.

 

Overall, I really like the ideas you're putting out there, but a lot of them have some flaws and issues that are hard to overcome. Like I said, the Jailbreak managers and higher ups are discussing new changes and plugins that may be implemented in the near future, so keep your eye out for changelogs.

 

Reminder that I wasn't advocating for any of these ideas here; this was more of a post to weigh the flaws and benefits of the suggestions made by the community thus far. I don't think any of these solutions are good enough to be implemented.

[Nate S]

I believe just trying a credit bump for a few days would be very smart as I don't think there's much that could really go wrong, and it would gauge if it could be a good permanent solution, the other solutions could have downsides but I honestly can't think of any for a simple credit boost, so maybe just make a tiny 2x ct credits event week to try it out?