Cosmetic Secrets

[Vanya]

The main question is: are cosmetic secrets KOS?

Cosmetic secrets are secrets on maps that really don't have any in-game value, it just changes the way your player model looks (for example, the box on clouds or the compass on arcade). In the rules, it classifies as all "secrets" are kos, but I think that just picking up a decoy or bomb that doesn't modify gameplay wouldn't really be considered a secret that gives an advantage to the Ts. I think that cosmetic secrets that give you an actual advantage (like infinite nades or gravity changing cosmetics) should actually be KOS as they give an advantage to the Ts in some way. I want your opinions on this question since right now there is a lot of confusion on whether you should or should not kill a person with a cosmetic secret, sometimes CTs kill you for having them, sometimes they don't. I would also like to know where the line would be drawn between a secret and a cosmetic if there is any at all.

 

Of course, this is in no way trying to buff the T side to destroy the CT side as they are already getting annihilated, but it really helps to draw a line between what is KOS and what is not KOS for CTs to follow so that they can manage themselves better.

[RemixedPixel]

There’s 3 different examples on a few different maps that we can look at and see how players can interpret them.

 

1. Toilet, Book on obama, or crown bomb on undertale - completely cosmetic, Ts with these have no more advantage than any other T (besides throwing them, but grenades spawn in cells anyways)

2. Box on clouds, or Napstablook, Mettaton, or cup on undertale- completely cosmetic, but because of the larger size, Ts can hold primaries without CTs being able to see them. No CTs determine this to be a KOS secret.

3. Hearts on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you are given a jumpboost, but because there T does not have to have a primary, and because the person who does the secret doesn’t immediately acquire it (it spawns at red leaves), no CTs determine this to be a KOS secret.

4. Exojump on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you are given a jumpboost, but because the T MUST go through a secret (2nd floor hard climb), and there is no way you can drop the exojump to another T, you are KOS, and some CTs will KOS you if they determine it is you using it.

5. Frag grenade circle on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you have an infinite supply of nades for you and your teammates to use. CTs are split on this issue.

 

These are some points where you can draw the line. Is it as soon as you can hide primaries? Is it when you can gain a movement advantage? Or is it when you can start doing damage?

[Vanya]

There’s 3 different examples on a few different maps that we can look at and see how players can interpret them.

 

1. Toilet, Book on obama, or crown bomb on undertale - completely cosmetic, Ts with these have no more advantage than any other T (besides throwing them, but grenades spawn in cells anyways)

2. Box on clouds, or Napstablook, Mettaton, or cup on undertale- completely cosmetic, but because of the larger size, Ts can hold primaries without CTs being able to see them. No CTs determine this to be a KOS secret.

3. Hearts on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you are given a jumpboost, but because there T does not have to have a primary, and because the person who does the secret doesn’t immediately acquire it (it spawns at red leaves), no CTs determine this to be a KOS secret.

4. Exojump on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you are given a jumpboost, but because the T MUST go through a secret (2nd floor hard climb), and there is no way you can drop the exojump to another T, you are KOS, and some CTs will KOS you if they determine it is you using it.

5. Frag grenade circle on undertale - not completely cosmetic, as you have an infinite supply of nades for you and your teammates to use. CTs are split on this issue.

 

These are some points where you can draw the line. Is it as soon as you can hide primaries? Is it when you can gain a movement advantage? Or is it when you can start doing damage?

 

This is what I am talking about. As RemixedPixel said, we don't really have a definition of if a secret is a cosmetic or KOS; by definition, cosmetic items should be KOS as they are hidden in the map, but are not considered to be. I think a clear definition for CTs to know will help them kill off Ts, and will also help them from distinguishing whether a T is KOS or not.

[BloodBlades]

Most cts classify it as a kos secret and the rules dont cleary state if it is kos or not so its basically the ct choice to kill you but many things are based off ct choice so ig it should be just another things that are based of ct.

[Benzene]

I was going to comment on this earlier, but got sidetracked by something else.

 

I'm just going to say this: it does matter if the cosmetic you get gives you an advantage in-game or not, if you go through a secret to get it you're KOS. If the cosmetic is obtainable without using a secret, then it is not KOS. I can't really think of any KOS cosmetic secrets as of now, but an example of a non-KOS cosmetic would be the giant penis in Lego Jail. Since it is a decoy that can be picked up without using a secret, it's not KOS.

[Astral]

I'm SUPER late commenting on this but I'll put my two sense into it.

 

When it comes to secrets on JB and what makes certain secrets KOS and why, looking at secrets like what @Benzene said the penis on Lego jail wouldn't be KOS due to the secret itself obtainable without going into a KOS area and it not being a KOS item. But on a map like Undertale, their is a secret that gives you a sawdoff shotgun (not sure if it's still on the map). This sawdoff since it is a primary it is KOS no matter the circumstance. But, it also depends on the prosses of gaining the cosmetic secret makes it KOS or not. If you have to go through a ultimately KOS are to get the secret then you are KOS.

[thump]

I was going to comment on this earlier, but got sidetracked by something else.

 

I'm just going to say this: it does matter if the cosmetic you get gives you an advantage in-game or not, if you go through a secret to get it you're KOS. If the cosmetic is obtainable without using a secret, then it is not KOS. I can't really think of any KOS cosmetic secrets as of now, but an example of a non-KOS cosmetic would be the giant penis in Lego Jail. Since it is a decoy that can be picked up without using a secret, it's not KOS.

 

Isn't that kind of a slippery slope though? The way you're putting it, if a T grabs a cosmetic secret that requires a secret to get to then you would have to see the T go and get it. You wouldn't be able to KOS based off of just having the cosmetic if this is the case, right?

Now that I think about it there really isn't any cosmetic secrets that do this, but still that would just mean that the cosmetic secrets aren't kos.

[Benzene]

Isn't that kind of a slippery slope though? The way you're putting it, if a T grabs a cosmetic secret that requires a secret to get to then you would have to see the T go and get it. You wouldn't be able to KOS based off of just having the cosmetic if this is the case, right?

Now that I think about it there really isn't any cosmetic secrets that do this, but still that would just mean that the cosmetic secrets aren't kos.

 

I agree with you completely on this, and I'm also saying that what I said before might not apply to ALL situations. Obviously, if a cosmetic secret is obtainable without using a secret and a T gets it by going to the place and grabbing it, such as the giant penis in lego jail (while not blatantly disobeying), then they're not KOS. However, if there is a cosmetic secret that is KOS and passable from T to T, then you can't just kill the T who has it.

 

Let's use the decoy that gives you a giant penis in lego jail as an example. For the sake of the situation, let's say you had to use a secret to get to it. That would mean that whoever has the giant penis is automatically KOS, because you had to have gone through a secret to get it, and there's no way to pass it from player to player, as you cannot drop the decoy once you pick it up. This is the same as with pistols, such as VIP secret in VIPintheMix. If a CT sees a T with a pistol in VIP before cells are opened, but there are multiple prisoners in VIP, if they did not see that T go into the secret they cannot kill of off it. At his applied to passable KOS cosmetics.

[TheZZL]

Cosmetic secrets are not KOS unless you can verify the person wearing it went through a Secret/KOS Zone to obtain it. However, having a Cosmetic Secret does not automatically make you KOS.

 

The above definition means cosmetic secrets that are given in cells (Obama toilet, Undertale/Arcade Hat, etc.) would never be KOS since you do not enter a KOS Zone or Secret to obtain them.