CT Bans

[All Ts]

A 60 minute CT Ban for someone who continuously mass freekills doesn’t only seem like a disproportionate punishment but it seems like it will set up future players to get griefed again, potentially without proper resolution or punishment for the person who is again, blatantly ruining peoples fun. 

 

Is there any reason why mass freekillers, who more than often are blatantly griefing the server aren’t given a 3 day (where this originally was) to a 1 week ban? 

[BloodBlades]

26 minutes ago, All Ts said:

A 60 minute CT Ban for someone who continuously mass freekills doesn’t only seem like a disproportionate punishment but it seems like it will set up future players to get griefed again, potentially without proper resolution or punishment for the person who is again, blatantly ruining peoples fun. 

 

Is there any reason why mass freekillers, who more than often are blatantly griefing the server aren’t given a 3 day (where this originally was) to a 1 week ban? 

Blatant freekillers are usually given a one day ban. From my knowledge the only people who get ct banned are new players that dont understand the rules yet. Also, normal admins can only ban up to 3 days. Anything higher then that has to be approved by an ia. Freekill isnt something that is increased to one week unless the player has been banned 3 or more times for it. 

[All Ts]

32 minutes ago, BloodBlades said:

Blatant freekillers are usually given a one day ban. From my knowledge the only people who get ct banned are new players that dont understand the rules yet. Also, normal admins can only ban up to 3 days. Anything higher then that has to be approved by an ia. Freekill isnt something that is increased to one week unless the player has been banned 3 or more times for it. 

Yesterday I saw people pretty blatantly freekilling over and over who were given 60 minute CT bans. I was told this was the process not discretionary and I couldn't find updated info due to the sites update. A 120 minute CT ban, which is the maximum fits more than 60 or a 1 day but over the course of a month that is not what is occuring (feel free to check the bans). I'm not sure if it does and I can't find it, but the site might benefit from having a standalone page for this kind of information like it used to. I do understand the point you're making about new players who don't understand the rules, but I think emphasizing that people who do understand the rules, and are griefing shouldn't get off with a slap on the wrist always.

 

[Gentoo]

40 minutes ago, All Ts said:

Yesterday I saw people pretty blatantly freekilling over and over who were given 60 minute CT bans. I was told this was the process not discretionary and I couldn't find updated info due to the sites update. A 120 minute CT ban, which is the maximum fits more than 60 or a 1 day but over the course of a month that is not what is occuring (feel free to check the bans). I'm not sure if it does and I can't find it, but the site might benefit from having a standalone page for this kind of information like it used to. I do understand the point you're making about new players who don't understand the rules, but I think emphasizing that people who do understand the rules, and are griefing shouldn't get off with a slap on the wrist always.

 

I'm not particularly up to date on this stuff, but I know that when they were first implemented, I was still pretty active on JB. In practice, they seem to be more effective than you may initially think. The actual ban time is either time spent on a team or time spent alive (I'm leaning towards the former), so they can't be AFKed easily. These bans can last 1-2 days depending on how long the player stays on the server. Those that are just there to troll tend to leave when they see they can't join the team - prolonging the ban, while those that actually want to play will sit it out and play for 3 or more maps.

 

I don't disagree that these times could be increased, but the bans were specifically implemented to keep people playing the server, so extending them long enough will eventually have the opposite effect as 120+ minute bans begin to last 3 or 4 actual days. I'm sure more effort could be put into finding average session times, how long bans tend to last in real time, etc. but I don't believe just looking at some numbers and saying "that sounds about right" is what would be best right now.

[All Ts]

1 minute ago, Gentoo said:

I'm not particularly up to date on this stuff, but I know that when they were first implemented, I was still pretty active on JB. In practice, they seem to be more effective than you may initially think. The actual ban time is either time spent on a team or time spent alive (I'm leaning towards the former), so they can't be AFKed easily. These bans can last 1-2 days depending on how long the player stays on the server. Those that are just there to troll tend to leave when they see they can't join the team - prolonging the ban, while those that actually want to play will sit it out and play for 3 or more maps.

 

I don't disagree that these times could be increased, but the bans were specifically implemented to keep people playing the server, so extending them long enough will eventually have the opposite effect as 120+ minute bans begin to last 3 or 4 actual days. I'm sure more effort could be put into finding average session times, how long bans tend to last in real time, etc. but I don't believe just looking at some numbers and saying "that sounds about right" is what would be best right now.

For sure, at bare minimum I hope people look at the metrics I mentioned, are simply more mindful that the maximums are 120 or a more clear precedent set as far as increases are concerned.  I still would like the times increased, but these are just easy middle grounds. 

[Benzene]

When I was an admin, I'd be much harsher with punishments for freekillers. If someone joins the server with the sole intent of causing chaos and disrupting the server, and it's obvious that they find it fun to make others suffer, I'd slap them with a three-day ban. I feel as though CT bans are most effective for those who are new to Jailbreak and need time (spent alive and playing) to learn, or people who need a cooldown.

 

CT bans are ineffective for people who just want to troll, because if they really wanted to bypass it they could with another account. Trolls and griefers are much better left with a permanent mark on their record.

[All Ts]

39 minutes ago, Benzene said:

When I was an admin, I'd be much harsher with punishments for freekillers. If someone joins the server with the sole intent of causing chaos and disrupting the server, and it's obvious that they find it fun to make others suffer, I'd slap them with a three-day ban. I feel as though CT bans are most effective for those who are new to Jailbreak and need time (spent alive and playing) to learn, or people who need a cooldown.

 

CT bans are ineffective for people who just want to troll, because if they really wanted to bypass it they could with another account. Trolls and griefers are much better left with a permanent mark on their record.

To expand on what you said then, with the other option being 1 day do you think that suffices or do you think it falls under the category where someone could use another account. IMO better safe than sorry, make people go through another step. 

[TheZZL]

Excuse the lack of a proper response, I’m in a different state & on my phone.

 

 

2 hours ago, Benzene said:

When I was an admin, I'd be much harsher with punishments for freekillers. If someone joins the server with the sole intent of causing chaos and disrupting the server, and it's obvious that they find it fun to make others suffer, I'd slap them with a three-day ban. I feel as though CT bans are most effective for those who are new to Jailbreak and need time (spent alive and playing) to learn, or people who need a cooldown.

 

CT bans are ineffective for people who just want to troll, because if they really wanted to bypass it they could with another account. Trolls and griefers are much better left with a permanent mark on their record.

CTBans do leave a permanent mark on a players record. Nishok wonderfully set up a public website for CTBans to be logged & searched, including a nifty little column for how many times a player has been CTBanned. That number is taken into account by admins, managers (me and dom), and IAOs who deal with ban increase requests. 
 

Admins are told to go for CTBans on Guard related rule infractions, as it’s always better for the population of the server to keep our players online (something we’ve had a problem with the last half year). Yes, CTBans can be especially helpful for newer players who are confused/prone to make beginner mistakes, but they’re also effective against trolls as @Gentoo mentioned. Blatant griefers and mass free killers are likely to face the 1-2 hour CTBan which forces them actually play the game in order to be able to get back on CT again and possibly negatively interfere with other people’s gaming experience.Players can alt, or go straight back to rule breaking again once their bans expired, but admins can check how many times a player has been CTBanned to determine whether or not they need a longer CTBan this time, or to get regularly banned & face a possible ban increase. In the case of alting, it’s something that will always happen with any type of punishment so we’re lucky we have ~70IQ admins who can mostly tell the level one account that just joined right after the player got banned is likely an alt.
 

The CTBans used to be far longer, the maximum punishment being 6 hours I believe, but from what I remember it was found to be far too harsh on players. Moreover, our server, like you mentioned in your other thread, thrives on fast paced & deathmatchy gameplay which usually means guards are overwhelmed, in an unbalanced ratio, and getting absolutely pummeled. So, it would really hamper the entire server if most decent-corrupted guards were always stuck serving a CTBan. 

 

@All Ts , or anyone else, let me know if I missed addressing any of your points/questions.

 

 

Edit: On a decent laptop now so let me address this:

11 hours ago, All Ts said:

A 60 minute CT Ban for someone who continuously mass freekills doesn’t only seem like a disproportionate punishment but it seems like it will set up future players to get griefed again, potentially without proper resolution or punishment for the person who is again, blatantly ruining peoples fun. 

 

Is there any reason why mass freekillers, who more than often are blatantly griefing the server aren’t given a 3 day (where this originally was) to a 1 week ban? 

If you ever see a player that continuously mass freekills only ever receive a 60 minute CTBan you can go ahead and make a new thread @ing myself and Dom demanding us to sing 

 

 

and i'll get @20 scrolls to make a feature.

 

Seriously though, they may face an initial 60 minute CTBan for their first mass freekill, but if their ban expires and they get back on and mass freekill again, whether it's in a player complaint or from an admin in-game they'll likely get their CTBan time doubled to the max of 2 hours, or like most often get a 1 day ban.

For the specific situation you described, that's just not accurate information. After their initial CTBan it is up to admin discretion whether they'd like to make their next ban an extended CTBan (as long as it fits within the protocol) or ban them regularly. If we haven't made it clear enough, that would be my fault, but that's how it's been long before I got SM.

 

As you linked, the ban protocol has changed in a way where you won't face an initial 3 day ban for most things like you used to in 2018 for example. The added part though, is after their first ban the second, third, etc. will be longer and longer.

 

Quote

Ban #1 & Ban #2: 12 hours to 7 days. These should fall typically closer to lower-end of the spectrum, with the first offense being inside of the windows listed in the table above, and the second just being somewhere @ 7 days or less, depending on severity. 

 

Ban #3: 2 weeks to one month. If it is the same offense committed three times, this should be one month. If it's different crap, fall somewhere along the two week line.

 

Ban #4: Three months, regardless of same or different offenses.

 

Ban #5:  6 months, and we will stop saying 'permed' in these instances, instead simply saying 6 months. Someone who is actually 'permed' will be decided upon by the Board (with the possibility of extending this decision to the IA's) and listed in a Do Not Unban list in the higherup section. These will be a bit more uncommon.

 

I hope that clears everything up, for you, and for any and all admins.

 

[Mace]

Don't have anything really to add here but idk what it is about this girl. Whenever I see her face I have the urge to punch something. I can't be alone on this.

omg, just skimmed through this video. She tries to rap...

1 hour ago, TheZZL said:

 

 

[All Ts]

7 hours ago, TheZZL said:

Excuse the lack of a proper response, I’m in a different state & on my phone.

 

 

CTBans do leave a permanent mark on a players record. Nishok wonderfully set up a public website for CTBans to be logged & searched, including a nifty little column for how many times a player has been CTBanned. That number is taken into account by admins, managers (me and dom), and IAOs who deal with ban increase requests. 
 

Admins are told to go for CTBans on Guard related rule infractions, as it’s always better for the population of the server to keep our players online (something we’ve had a problem with the last half year). Yes, CTBans can be especially helpful for newer players who are confused/prone to make beginner mistakes, but they’re also effective against trolls as @Gentoo mentioned. Blatant griefers and mass free killers are likely to face the 1-2 hour CTBan which forces them actually play the game in order to be able to get back on CT again and possibly negatively interfere with other people’s gaming experience.Players can alt, or go straight back to rule breaking again once their bans expired, but admins can check how many times a player has been CTBanned to determine whether or not they need a longer CTBan this time, or to get regularly banned & face a possible ban increase. In the case of alting, it’s something that will always happen with any type of punishment so we’re lucky we have ~70IQ admins who can mostly tell the level one account that just joined right after the player got banned is likely an alt.
 

The CTBans used to be far longer, the maximum punishment being 6 hours I believe, but from what I remember it was found to be far too harsh on players. Moreover, our server, like you mentioned in your other thread, thrives on fast paced & deathmatchy gameplay which usually means guards are overwhelmed, in an unbalanced ratio, and getting absolutely pummeled. So, it would really hamper the entire server if most decent-corrupted guards were always stuck serving a CTBan. 

 

@All Ts , or anyone else, let me know if I missed addressing any of your points/questions.

 

 

Edit: On a decent laptop now so let me address this:

If you ever see a player that continuously mass freekills only ever receive a 60 minute CTBan you can go ahead and make a new thread @ing myself and Dom demanding us to sing 

 

 

and i'll get @20 scrolls to make a feature.

 

Seriously though, they may face an initial 60 minute CTBan for their first mass freekill, but if their ban expires and they get back on and mass freekill again, whether it's in a player complaint or from an admin in-game they'll likely get their CTBan time doubled to the max of 2 hours, or like most often get a 1 day ban.

For the specific situation you described, that's just not accurate information. After their initial CTBan it is up to admin discretion whether they'd like to make their next ban an extended CTBan (as long as it fits within the protocol) or ban them regularly. If we haven't made it clear enough, that would be my fault, but that's how it's been long before I got SM.

 

As you linked, the ban protocol has changed in a way where you won't face an initial 3 day ban for most things like you used to in 2018 for example. The added part though, is after their first ban the second, third, etc. will be longer and longer.

 

 

I hope that clears everything up, for you, and for any and all admins.

 

I think this will be a recurring issue but I'll agree to disagree, I don't wanna pass up the opportunity to hear you guys sing whatever that is lol. IMHO the CTBans page and SourceBans page plus on avg. declining server rank & just watching some of the admins do their thing as well as talk on Discord are some huge flags for me. Could be entirely anecdotal, I don't have an issue with finding out but I do ask that in the future we all stay open minded for the better of the server : )