CT Bans

[Benzene]

12 hours ago, All Ts said:

To expand on what you said then, with the other option being 1 day do you think that suffices or do you think it falls under the category where someone could use another account. IMO better safe than sorry, make people go through another step. 

The difference between CT bans and regular bans is that regular bans will expire without you having to do anything. This in my opinion is the best punishment for someone who just wants to troll, as it forces them off the server for a set period of time. I don't really think it makes a difference to a griefer whether they receive a one-day ban or a three-day ban, because likely they'll just move on to a different server after getting banned, but I feel that a three-day ban is justifiable in certain scenarios, this included. If a different admin believes that a one-day ban is sufficient, then they can act on their own judgement as well.

 

The fact that a CT ban forces you to play and learn in order for it to expire, as it'll just sit there forever if you don't get on T side and start playing rounds, that's why I think it's incredibly useful for newer players and those who need to learn the rules. To bring up @TheZZL's point, I actually had no clue that CT bans are logged, so that might have changed my initial response. However, I don't know how those logs work and I've never used them to I won't factor that into my opinion as of now.

[TheZZL]

1 minute ago, Benzene said:

To bring up @TheZZL's point, I actually had no clue that CT bans are logged, so that might have changed my initial response. However, I don't know how those logs work and I've never used them to I won't factor that into my opinion as of now.

https://banned.steam-gamers.net/ctbans/
or hover over “BANNED” at the top of the forums 

[fru!ty]

Now I don't generally play JB; and I also know this thread has already been summed up fairly well by ZZL and its irrelevant for me to post here, but I agree that a 60 minute ban can be seen as too short of a CT ban as after an hour, or even during the hour, someone can come on an alt and just freekill some more i know ips exist 

 

I don't think that 60 minutes is a long enough ban for mass freekill or even freekill in general, but I don't play JB too much either, I'm just saying 60-120 minutes  MAX is waaaaay too short for this reason. I don't expect this to be changed at all, but a 120 minute minimum would be statistically  100% more effective on ct bans, and then again, (Ban #1 & Ban #2: 12 hours to 7 days. These should fall typically closer to lower-end of the spectrum, with the first offense being inside of the windows listed in the table above, and the second just being somewhere @ 7 days or less, depending on severity. )  The default ban for pretty much anything else is at least 12 hours, and for a BAN to be 60 minutes, it's pretty much just a timeout or a kick instead of a ban .

[All Ts]

6 hours ago, fru!ty said:

Now I don't generally play JB; and I also know this thread has already been summed up fairly well by ZZL and its irrelevant for me to post here, but I agree that a 60 minute ban can be seen as too short of a CT ban as after an hour, or even during the hour, someone can come on an alt and just freekill some more i know ips exist 

 

I don't think that 60 minutes is a long enough ban for mass freekill or even freekill in general, but I don't play JB too much either, I'm just saying 60-120 minutes  MAX is waaaaay too short for this reason. I don't expect this to be changed at all, but a 120 minute minimum would be statistically  100% more effective on ct bans, and then again, (Ban #1 & Ban #2: 12 hours to 7 days. These should fall typically closer to lower-end of the spectrum, with the first offense being inside of the windows listed in the table above, and the second just being somewhere @ 7 days or less, depending on severity. )  The default ban for pretty much anything else is at least 12 hours, and for a BAN to be 60 minutes, it's pretty much just a timeout or a kick instead of a ban .

I agree with you about the 60 minute bans and maximums. The first point however isn't something lost on me. I know better than anyone; trust me. I don't think it's the end all be all to this discussion, the stopping point is whether or not it's an issue It is about putting obstacles in place to avoid griefing, it's possible to just say "well he's going to just go on an alt don't do X", it's more difficult to change the systems in place based on prevailing sentiment and verifiable situations.

 

For example, what do you make of situations like these:

 

https://banned.steam-gamers.net/ctbans/index.php?search=STEAM_1%3A1%3A177764132
https://banned.steam-gamers.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_1%3A1%3A177764132 &Submit=Search
-
https://banned.steam-gamers.net/ctbans/index.php?search=STEAM_1%3A0%3A167748498
https://banned.steam-gamers.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_1%3A0%3A167748498&Submit=Search

 

There's no reason why this, and the many situations like this will not keep occuring tbh. It doesn't look like it happens by random chance, it looks like a mixture of apathy or leniency from staff leading to recurrent punishments which means recurrent issues for the playerbase. 

 

CT Bans was added during my time at Jailbreak, and the reason why we pushed for it was a supplemental punishment. If some guy didn't know what he was doing, we wanted to stop this person from joining CT, killing everyone, and I'd have to sit there to continue switching him. If I wanted to go take a shit at some point, there needed to be a solution. This is the same reason automated systems like a time requirement, ratio control, and so on was implemented- to create ease for the staff.

 

 It seems to be doing the opposite of it's original intention which is allow griefers to continuously do their thing for reasons not entirely worth speculating on, but if I had to guess it's maybe that admins aren't clear on ban protocol, which used to have it's own special, very visible page and when you crossed a certain line as a player you were practically gunned down by the staff team. Increase and perm requests are maybe too much of a step for people, and at some point maybe they'll reconsider longer ban times for admins. With less work, and more tools at the admins disposable this should be a much better environment, not worse.

[The Real Slim Jim]

18 hours ago, fru!ty said:

Now I don't generally play JB; and I also know this thread has already been summed up fairly well by ZZL and its irrelevant for me to post here, but I agree that a 60 minute ban can be seen as too short of a CT ban as after an hour, or even during the hour, someone can come on an alt and just freekill some more i know ips exist 

 

I don't think that 60 minutes is a long enough ban for mass freekill or even freekill in general, but I don't play JB too much either, I'm just saying 60-120 minutes  MAX is waaaaay too short for this reason. I don't expect this to be changed at all, but a 120 minute minimum would be statistically  100% more effective on ct bans, and then again, (Ban #1 & Ban #2: 12 hours to 7 days. These should fall typically closer to lower-end of the spectrum, with the first offense being inside of the windows listed in the table above, and the second just being somewhere @ 7 days or less, depending on severity. )  The default ban for pretty much anything else is at least 12 hours, and for a BAN to be 60 minutes, it's pretty much just a timeout or a kick instead of a ban .

I disagree with this, a 30 or 60 minute break from ct isn't really aimed at those who are in the server to Mass freekill. Its aimed at those who dont know how to play ct and are overstepping their rule knowledge, as a way to curb whatever bad thing they are doing. And 60 minutes will do that in most cases. for small things that repeat often, not for making themselves  a star in the server.

 

stricter ban policy is different from ctbans and should kinda be used as putting them in jail in my opinion.  !jail > !ctban

 

 

 

 

[TheZZL]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:48 PM, All Ts said:

 It seems to be doing the opposite of it's original intention which is allow griefers to continuously do their thing for reasons not entirely worth speculating on, but if I had to guess it's maybe that admins aren't clear on ban protocol, which used to have it's own special, very visible page and when you crossed a certain line as a player you were practically gunned down by the staff team. Increase and perm requests are maybe too much of a step for people, and at some point maybe they'll reconsider longer ban times for admins. With less work, and more tools at the admins disposable this should be a much better environment, not worse.

Just to conclude things, the admins have been addressed and reminded to check CT Bans as well as Sourcebans to get ban times extended for those that need it.

 

As for the discussion of increasing ban times, as long as admins are keeping up to date with protocols I see no reason to increase CT Ban times. 2 Hours maximum to the worst offenders seems good enough to me, and I can tell you we'll be looking at the page a lot more now to make sure things like this don't go under the radar. 

 

Appreciate the discussion as always.

[All Ts]

@TheZZL

 

Spoiler

 

[https://banned.steam-gamers.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_1%3A0%3A574110968&Submit=Search

https://banned.steam-gamers.net/ctbans/index.php?search=STEAM_1%3A0%3A574110968

 

https://banned.steam-gamers.net/ctbans/index.php?search=STEAM_1%3A0%3A581971466

https://banned.steam-gamers.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_1%3A0%3A581971466&Submit=Search

 

 

 

This is still an issue, and I understand it's an admins discretion whether or not to put in perm requests on these issues but at some point it's just absurd.

 

The sheer volume of punishments and they get to come on a day or two later, or a half hour later if CT banned to continue to do the same things often going completely unpunished for a long while is just not okay at all if we're trying to be a server that is fun to play on and even more than that compete with other communities this needs to change. I think this needs to be escalated up to IA's and/or BD's. I understand this is not something you yourself can solve, but it's an issue. I have had to deal with both of these players, and the idea that I will have to again because of the system we have in place is not something I am a fan of. 

 

 

 

 

[Autistic]

On 4/7/2021 at 7:04 AM, The Real Slim Jim said:

I disagree with this, a 30 or 60 minute break from ct isn't really aimed at those who are in the server to Mass freekill. Its aimed at those who dont know how to play ct and are overstepping their rule knowledge, as a way to curb whatever bad thing they are doing. And 60 minutes will do that in most cases. for small things that repeat often, not for making themselves  a star in the server.

 

stricter ban policy is different from ctbans and should kinda be used as putting them in jail in my opinion.  !jail > !ctban

 

 

 

 

Slim hit it spot on ctban is for newer players, while repeat offenders of mass fk and leave normally get banned normally after a few ctbans. Ctban is time spent in game alive so if your a t who rebels and dies alot it can turn from 2 hours to 3 or 4. I don't think personally it needs changed.

[Dico |HM|]

sorry if i'm necroing this thread, but i feel like there should be some sort of warning system, ESPECIALLY for new players. and i mean like an ACTUAL warning system, not just dank or scrolls getting on and saying "oi cunt if you breathe like that again im banning you" and then dank gets 5 bans in a row from one game of TTT. I feel like it should be up to mods, but heres my idea on how it should work

1 warn is a verbal warn

2 warns is a verbal warn + maybe a 5-10 minute ct ban, nothing too drastic

3 is a normal CT ban

i'd say if they're a new player, you can bend the rules a bit, but you cant really because its a 3 strike system.

again, sorry if this is kind of reviving a dead thread, but i feel this would be a good idea

[The Real Slim Jim]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:42 PM, All Ts said:

and they get to come on a day or two later, or a half hour later if CT banned to continue to do the same things often going completely unpunished for a long while

Yeah after being in the server on t side for up to 2 hours, which is quite some time.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 8:42 PM, All Ts said:

but it's an issue. I have had to deal with both of these players, and the idea that I will have to again because of the system we have in place is not something I am a fan of

Settle down bud. I still think you are over dramatizing the role that ctbans play, or are meant to play, on the server. 

 

They are targeted towards accidental rule breakers or small slip ups that we all have (a bit like the recent ctban that I had gotten given by @TheZZL a week ago)

 

 

It still feels like you want ban protocol to be stricter, which should have nothing to do with ct bans, its essentially what a kick should be. Ts are meant to create confusion, cts arent.

 

 

 

After talking to @All Tsabout it on vc,  it seems we are fighting the same problem from two different sides.

 

the way I see it it should be a 30,60,120 then a 1 day server ban  if they are all for the same rule break.