[Applied] A solution.

[kabLe]

17 minutes ago, ㅤDAFTㅤ said:

 

Do u guys do fucking anything besides deny responsibility for what happens right in front of u

 

Like the amount of deflection that's been maintained by the people in positions of power is vile

 

Like no you goddamn caveman we are not the fucking problem

 

There were no interesting or big updates to the servers in months

 

The events become infrequent and poorly managed by garbage shitty new applicants (thanks for revoking the rights of respected regulars to comment on admin apps for an entire year)

 

90% of staff accepted in the past year have been beyond incompetent and infamous for generally asinine behavior (again thanks for revoking the rights of respected regulars to comment on admin apps for an entire year)

 

Regulars who have been proven to damage the servers time and time again for LITERALLY CHEATING AND EXPLOITING were let off the hook over and over while:

 

The staff preferred to shift their attention towards lighthearted trolls who did nothing but try to defibrillate the fun server environments

 

Regulars who are universally disliked and kill servers are still around and kept untouched, even after crossing the line and spitting in the face of respected members in front of the entire community

 

-

 

All the good staff members are leaving, this place isn't going anywhere because y'all have no clue how to fix it so if y'all could just unban slurs on JB until the server dies so I can play electric razor with a bunch of racist screaming children one last time that'd be great.

 

 

The staff members your referring to were running the show for the last year.

 

You should be pointing the finger at the Server Managers and Events Coordinators who have been given that responsibility. Which I have previously called out was not great. We are moving forward with clearer intentions and we have no room for belligerence like what you just displayed. Also, most people do a very good job when they first start out that cannot be taken away, burn out is real and motivation dips down. It happens. 

 

Though I have and still do agree with your sentiment, being civilized will get you much further. Many people have been given too many chances however just because you and your friend group view them as annoying does not mean the rest of people do. While there are obvious examples of some who actively just ruin the atmosphere it’s not always black and white

[delirium]

9 minutes ago, ㅤDAFTㅤ said:

 

Do u guys do fucking anything besides deny responsibility for what happens right in front of u

 

Like the amount of deflection that's been maintained by the people in positions of power is vile

 

Like no you goddamn caveman we are not the fucking problem

 

There were no interesting or big updates to the servers in months

 

The events become infrequent and poorly managed by garbage shitty new applicants (thanks for revoking the rights of respected regulars to comment on admin apps for an entire year)

 

90% of staff accepted in the past year have been beyond incompetent and infamous for generally asinine behavior (again thanks for revoking the rights of respected regulars to comment on admin apps for an entire year)

 

Regulars who have been proven to damage the servers time and time again for LITERALLY CHEATING AND EXPLOITING were let off the hook over and over while:

 

The staff preferred to shift their attention towards lighthearted trolls who did nothing but try to defibrillate the fun server environments

 

Regulars who are universally disliked and kill servers are still around and kept untouched, even after crossing the line and spitting in the face of respected members in front of the entire community

 

-

 

All the good staff members are leaving, this place isn't going anywhere because y'all have no clue how to fix it so if y'all could just unban slurs on JB until the server dies so I can play electric razor with a bunch of racist screaming children one last time that'd be great.

 

 

Who is we? 

[duffy]

I have no idea what was going on with the Banana Joe thing and I easily could have came in at a bad time. I know that the good guys are trolls (sometimes) and I'm not totally oblivious, but I was more so talking about the thing with rygor. I am totally speaking in a point of neutrality here because I don't know the full story, but rygor was saying that the IA team used to constantly make fun of his disability. If I was a random that had just joined the discord, saw that, and then saw BoM's reply of "did you complain?" which, respectfully, is like the worst excuse I have ever seen, I would leave, instantly. Aside from my response, you have to understand why that looks really, really bad to any new players. In rygor's defense, can you not see the problem of someone getting made fun of by the people that run this community? Can you understand why rygor might be a little intimidated to complain, because the people that he can complain to are the ones making fun of him? 

 

The whole thing with the discord being distasteful, once again I could have come in at a bad time, but, it's also not the first time I have seen shit like that before. In response to what I said before, about 'regulars going to their own servers', I know for a fact that are many groups of people that are still very active on video games in general, and for certain reasons do not come to the main discord. I know that many staff members are in these servers and know what they're like. They have a sense of community. They enjoy their own server a hell of a lot more than the SG one. Do you think that these groups of people went to their own discord because they felt like, or because they didn't like the atmosphere at SG anymore? That's for you to decide, but I can confidently say that I know the answer to that. 

 

I am, for the times that I can even play, very active on the CS:GO servers. It literally pains me that I have been here for nearly 4 years and seeing the servers like this. Like I said before, there are groups of many old/new regulars that would still be willing to play the servers if the servers were actually populated. The roots are that this is a CS:GO gaming community. Personally, and this is my opinion, us moving away from that is what finally killed off our servers. I go in the main discord a few days a week to try and get people on scrim. It's not like I'm drastically changing the servers forever, but I'm doing what I can as an admin. I feel like there's just no willingness to do anything anymore. Maybe that was a problem with our recent staff and maybe the new ones have answers. I give my best of luck and wishes to the new staff and the ones that actually care. To the ones that don't care and do this just to hold a higher rank than everyone else, fuck you. 

 

The main point I was trying to get at in my original post is that there is no way that you can sit here and tell me that our community as a whole is in a better place than it was at any point in its life. The sense of community is gone, things need to change, people need to change, and being ignorant and stubborn to the problems isn't going to help anyone. Maybe start by trying to better repair relationships with the members and staff, because, afaik, this has been a problem for a long time.

[Gentoo]

23 minutes ago, ㅤDAFTㅤ said:

All the good staff members are leaving, this place isn't going anywhere because y'all have no clue how to fix it so if y'all could just unban slurs on JB until the server dies so I can play electric razor with a bunch of racist screaming children one last time that'd be great.

lol who?

 

I would make the case that in the past many dedicated, skilled, passionate staff and members have been ostracized, held back, demoted, banned etc in the past due to the boards previous focus and low tolerance on behavior over work done. Understandably, for a group of busy people, it's much easier to keep up with a handful of reports or a quick glance at tone than staying up to date with changelogs, server chats, or actually joining the servers to see what's taking place and how people behave and help shape their servers communities. Given our previous indefinite supply of new faces, it wasn't the end of the world to burn bridges haphazardly in lieu of actually making efforts to resolve interpersonal issues or hear people out, but as time went on and quality replacements became more sparse, the focus should have shifted, which may be what's been occuring more recently as some old and previously unwanted faces make their return. Ironically enough, I think it's this very behavior that leads to hard working staff sperging out in the first place. Person puts in assloads of work, gets passed over because they're less behaved or not as tight with whatever managers/board members are making decisions, said managers cba to look into what work is actually being done or make an effort to reach out and understand perspectives, don't follow up on why someone might not have progressed or on issues they've brought up, rinse and repeat.

 

With that out of the way, I don't think that's who you're referring to here. In the past 6 months I've mostly seen people treading water and losing interest in things they weren't putting a large amount of effort into in the first place. Maybe as someone who's not been in the sphere of staff, you don't have the perspective on something like this, but absent of large intervention of the board, the server managers down are entirely responsible for the performance of specific servers. If you are going to propose that 'all the good staff members' are responsible for SGs steepest decline in players and worst server performance in years I think you are terribly misguided.

 

The board is mostly responsible for handling the community outside of the servers and managing staff. Players have always come from the servers to the community, not the other way around.

 

My biggest gripe with the community itself in the last few months has been that it doesn't seem anyone, new members to long term staff can't get any serious post, discussion, or change out without some retard and 10 other cronies flaming them and shutting things down. Maybe the board could do more about that 

[kabLe]

14 minutes ago, duffy said:

I have no idea what was going on with the Banana Joe thing and I easily could have came in at a bad time. I know that the good guys are trolls (sometimes) and I'm not totally oblivious, but I was more so talking about the thing with rygor. I am totally speaking in a point of neutrality here because I don't know the full story, but rygor was saying that the IA team used to constantly make fun of his disability. If I was a random that had just joined the discord, saw that, and then saw BoM's reply of "did you complain?" which, respectfully, is like the worst excuse I have ever seen, I would leave, instantly. Aside from my response, you have to understand why that looks really, really bad to any new players. In rygor's defense, can you not see the problem of someone getting made fun of by the people that run this community? Can you understand why rygor might be a little intimidated to complain, because the people that he can complain to are the ones making fun of him? 

 

The whole thing with the discord being distasteful, once again I could have come in at a bad time, but, it's also not the first time I have seen shit like that before. In response to what I said before, about 'regulars going to their own servers', I know for a fact that are many groups of people that are still very active on video games in general, and for certain reasons do not come to the main discord. I know that many staff members are in these servers and know what they're like. They have a sense of community. They enjoy their own server a hell of a lot more than the SG one. Do you think that these groups of people went to their own discord because they felt like, or because they didn't like the atmosphere at SG anymore? That's for you to decide, but I can confidently say that I know the answer to that. 

 

I am, for the times that I can even play, very active on the CS:GO servers. It literally pains me that I have been here for nearly 4 years and seeing the servers like this. Like I said before, there are groups of many old/new regulars that would still be willing to play the servers if the servers were actually populated. The unwelcoming environment that I was talking about is this. The roots are that this is a CS:GO gaming community. Personally, and this is my opinion, us moving away from that is what finally killed off our servers. I go in the main discord a few days a week to try and get people on scrim. It's not like I'm drastically changing the servers forever, but I'm doing what I can as an admin. I feel like there's just no willingness to do anything anymore. Maybe that was a problem with our recent staff and maybe the new ones have answers. I give my best of luck and wishes to the new staff and the ones that actually care. To the ones that don't care and do this just to hold a higher rank than everyone else, fuck you. 

 

The main point I was trying to get at in my original post is that there is no way that you can sit here and tell me that our community as a whole is in a better place than it was at any point in its life. The sense of community is gone, things need to change, people need to change, and being ignorant and stubborn to the problems isn't going to help anyone. Maybe start by trying to better repair relationships with the members and staff, because, afaik, this has been a problem for a long time.

I fully appreciate this response I’d just like to start by saying that.

 

I will refrain from speaking about the rygor situation since I’m not familiar with it but it seems a little contradictory to say we should be speaking up for people on our own accord but then also not be so serious. It kinda proves my point that it’s not so black and white. Banana joe was annoyed and we stood up for him when we actively complained about it and got shit for it. According to you rygor was getting bullied but never said it bothered him but we should have known that.

 

I have made fun of plenty of people here who later came up to me and said I actually do not like that people do that and would like it to stop. However, they have even said that it’s partly their fault for not speaking up. As soon as it was brought to our attention we stopped. Nobody here is mind readers. If rygor had a disability and everyone was making fun of him for it and he never said anything I assume he was just rolling with the joke however if he said yo I don’t like that we have stopped. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. If you truly do find a specific joke funny when it’s at your direct expense in terms of disabilities or anything personal, I don’t think I can name a single time where the line was drawn and higher ups actively ignored it. Send us a PM and let us know, I can’t read your mind nor can I do anything if you feel like you can’t privately message one of us. We are regular gamers too just inform us and we can work with you. Just like banana joe, we did nothing for quite a long time and then he let us know directly and we have been trying to actively stop it without being too harsh. Eventually we will set a precedent. 

 

side note: I’m more than willing to have a conversation and hear complaints from anyone that’s willing.

 

[BoM]

1 minute ago, Gentoo said:

lol who?

 

I would make the case that in the past many dedicated, skilled, passionate staff and members have been ostracized, held back, demoted, banned etc in the past due to the boards previous focus and low tolerance on behavior over work done. Understandably, for a group of busy people, it's much easier to keep up with a handful of reports or a quick glance at tone than staying up to date with changelogs, server chats, or actually joining the servers to see what's taking place and how people behave and help shape their servers communities. Given our previous indefinite supply of new faces, it wasn't the end of the world to burn bridges haphazardly in lieu of actually making efforts to resolve interpersonal issues or hear people out, but as time went on and quality replacements became more sparse, the focus should have shifted, which may be what's been occuring more recently as some old and previously unwanted faces make their return. Ironically enough, I think it's this very behavior that leads to hard working staff sperging out in the first place. Person puts in assloads of work, gets passed over because they're less behaved or not as tight with whatever managers/board members are making decisions, said managers cba to look into what work is actually being done or make an effort to reach out and understand perspectives, don't follow up on why someone might not have progressed or on issues they've brought up, rinse and repeat.

 

With that out of the way, I don't think that's who you're referring to here. In the past 6 months I've mostly seen people treading water and losing interest in things they weren't putting a large amount of effort into in the first place. Maybe as someone who's not been in the sphere of staff, you don't have the perspective on something like this, but absent of large intervention of the board, the server managers down are entirely responsible for the performance of specific servers. If you are going to propose that 'all the good staff members' are responsible for SGs steepest decline in players and worst server performance in years I think you are terribly misguided.

 

The board is mostly responsible for handling the community outside of the servers and managing staff. Players have always come from the servers to the community, not the other way around.

Hot

 

fucking

 

take.

 

1 minute ago, Gentoo said:

 

My biggest gripe with the community itself in the last few months has been that it doesn't seem anyone, new members to long term staff can't get any serious post, discussion, or change out without some retard and 10 other cronies flaming them and shutting things down. Maybe the board could do more about that 

Previous measures to prevent this have obviously not gone well, but yeah we see this problem as well and are definitely done putting up with that. It was perhaps a misstep to try and not just completely shut down this behavior in the hopes of both getting something constructive out of it and also not ejecting more community members (staff or otherwise) unnecessarily. 

[duffy]

13 minutes ago, kabLe said:

I fully appreciate this response I’d just like to start by saying that.

 

I will refrain from speaking about the rygor situation since I’m not familiar with it but it seems a little contradictory to say we should be speaking up for people on our own accord but then also not be so serious. It kinda proves my point that it’s not so black and white. Banana joe was annoyed and we stood up for him when we actively complained about it and got shit for it. According to you rygor was getting bullied but never said it bothered him but we should have known that.

 

I have made fun of plenty of people here who later came up to me and said I actually do not like that people do that and would like it to stop. However, they have even said that it’s partly their fault for not speaking up. As soon as it was brought to our attention we stopped. Nobody here is mind readers. If rygor had a disability and everyone was making fun of him for it and he never said anything I assume he was just rolling with the joke however if he said yo I don’t like that we have stopped. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. If you truly do find a specific joke funny when it’s at your direct expense in terms of disabilities or anything personal, I don’t think I can name a single time where the line was drawn and higher ups actively ignored it. Send us a PM and let us know, I can’t read your mind nor can I do anything if you feel like you can’t privately message one of us. We are regular gamers too just inform us and we can work with you. Just like banana joe, we did nothing for quite a long time and then he let us know directly and we have been trying to actively stop it without being too harsh. Eventually we will set a precedent. 

 

side note: I’m more than willing to have a conversation and hear complaints from anyone that’s willing.

 

Hey man, I appreciate the response as well. I like that we can have a nice and respectful argument here. 

 

I'm going to try and put this into a real world situation here because the only difference here is that we're all sitting behind computer screens and wouldn't say a quarter of the shit in person compared to on the internet. Say you were in high school again and some kid that you're somewhat friends with, not extremely close, had a disability. Would you go up to him and start heckling him for having a disability? I would hope you say no, and if you say yes you're not a good person, at all. It's not, in any way, rygor's responsibility to be the one to put a stop to the shit. People need to be decent humans and realize what they're saying, that's why there should have been consequences to these peoples' actions. And this isn't a joke, the line has to be drawn somewhere and I would say making fun of somebody's disability is where it should be drawn. I know that you can't read minds but come on, you know that these things are hurtful toward him whether he shrugs it off or not. It's not like you're making fun of him because he did something stupid or make a bad joke, it's not like he chose to have a disability.

[kabLe]

2 minutes ago, duffy said:

Hey man, I appreciate the response as well. I like that we can have a nice and respectful argument here. 

 

I'm going to try and put this into a real world situation here because the only difference here is that we're all sitting behind computer screens and wouldn't say a quarter of the shit in person compared to on the internet. Say you were in high school again and some kid that you're somewhat friends with, not extremely close, had a disability. Would you go up to him and start heckling him for having a disability? I would hope you say no, and if you say yes you're not a good person, at all. It's not, in any way, rygor's responsibility to be the one to put a stop to the shit. People need to be decent humans and realize what they're saying, that's why there should have been consequences to these peoples' actions. And this isn't a joke, the line has to be drawn somewhere and I would say making fun of somebody's disability is where it should be drawn. I know that you can't read minds but come on, you know that these things are hurtful toward him whether he shrugs it off or not. It's not like you're making fun of him because he did something stupid or make a bad joke, it's totally out of his control.

I totally understand your point and your right I wouldn’t. Not in highschool nor in my adult life. However if I was hanging out with said person and he was a buddy of mine I would probably poke fun with some light hearted jokes. “Hey man at least you can get that weed card” light hearted stuff. However, if IRL I would be able to visually pick up on his body language and be able to make a determination on if he was uncomfortable or not and then go from there. A luxury not afforded to me over the internet. I don’t know who’s close friends and whose not. I assume when Bom was saying his jokes, they were on better terms and he didn’t think it was a serious thing. Idk, I don’t want to put any words in anyone’s mouths or try to infer intentions but I do understand what you are getting at. Which is why I say it’s not just black and white. I don’t know rygor sense of humor at all so I’m general, over the internet or in person, I would make any jokes until I’ve gotten to know him. Knowing Bom I would personally assume the same thing goes for him.

[BoM]

28 minutes ago, duffy said:

I have no idea what was going on with the Banana Joe thing and I easily could have came in at a bad time. I know that the good guys are trolls (sometimes) and I'm not totally oblivious, but I was more so talking about the thing with rygor. I am totally speaking in a point of neutrality here because I don't know the full story, but rygor was saying that the IA team used to constantly make fun of his disability. If I was a random that had just joined the discord, saw that, and then saw BoM's reply of "did you complain?" which, respectfully, is like the worst excuse I have ever seen, I would leave, instantly. Aside from my response, you have to understand why that looks really, really bad to any new players. In rygor's defense, can you not see the problem of someone getting made fun of by the people that run this community? Can you understand why rygor might be a little intimidated to complain, because the people that he can complain to are the ones making fun of him? 

Yeah so, again you kinda just jumped in so only so much you're gonna see of the situation...but that was literally the first I'd seen of it being an issue. I've also seen friends of his make the eye jokes A LOT, tbh didn't even know the full story and it just seemed like an inside joke so it was always left alone. I'd imagine a lot of IA+ would be in the same boat, hard to enforce something when it all appears to be an inside joke among friends until told otherwise.

 

I respect your sentiments of just being decent and thinking people shouldn't make fun of others disabilities, but in a similar real world scenario we are really being asked to be the teachers here at this point. Groups of people here want to be very exclusive and separate in a way that essentially makes a student teacher relationship where we are stuck playing catch up half the time and really do need to be given information if someone has a problem. A shitty unfortunate reality both in school/life/SG but yeah not everyone is gonna see that xyz is struggling with something, especially here where people go from serious -> joking -> trolling -> serious in a matter of 3 seconds or less. Call it what you will, age difference...generation difference...friend group difference....but there are people here in the reg and staff that just want to have talks like this and expect that everyone is capable of voicing *some kind of opinion* if they care to have one. I really don't believe that the people making fun of him were the ones he could have complained to, and being a BD for like 1.5 years now I can tell you it was never in any fucking capacity coming from the BD level where he could have absolutely gone if it was an issue.

[destroylonelyfan2011]

id like to make a statement here if i could just to address some things about the eye stuff really quick. while i dont particularly like the eye jokes or like hearing them, i still think they can be funny if you’re creative with them and i support peoples right to say them and no offense is ever really taken from them. with that out of the way i would like to say i would never go out of my way to get anyone banned or in trouble for making jokes like this and i would especially never tell anyone they were the problem and the only thing standing in between this organization and its success if they made an eye joke. call this passive aggressive but that’s absolutely insane and to hear that from the leader of this community was kind of crazy. that being said i respect banana joes right to peace and i condone all banana joe slander. olive branch extended