Abortion...

[kabLe]

49 minutes ago, Kieran said:

Weird... I wonder which party doesn't want taxpayers funds to go towards providing everyone healthcare, so those chemo patients don't go broke.

 

Never said I supported the Republican Party or agreed at all with taxpayer funded health care. I simply said if I had to pick, it’d go to chemo rather than abortion. In a perfect world none of it should go to either.

33 minutes ago, BoM said:

Don't care about dollars don't care about comparative arguments. Just care about protecting the rights of women through morally sound laws that I can agree with. Get me there and then we can talk about the rest of it.

This seems like an irresponsible take. You don’t have a right to an abortion you have a right towards bodily autonomy. Which I agree, abortion is part of that. But should not be funded by taxpayers. Morals are different per person and change overtime. I seriously doubt it was morally okay to kill your offspring before its born in 1920 when it wasn’t plausible to do. In 1930 weed was morally wrong. You’d be a creten in that age so they made it illegal, should that law not be changed as well? Why is a woman allowed to get an abortion but not do heroin? What makes your morals better then mine or anyone else that disagrees with you?

 

If your not even willing to recognize the other side there won’t be any compromise just a constant battle between America’s left and right arm until they break each other.

 

I fully support someone’s right to procure an abortion, however I don’t want to pay for it and if the woman decides to go through with it then I want my choice to not have anything to do with it just like the woman does now. Ya know, like equality. Can you tell me where I’m morally wrong for not wanting to pay for someone else’s irresponsibility, accident, or bad luck? And if anyone wants to come at me for saying I don’t want to pay for an abortion for someone who gets raped, abused or life would be threatened, when’s the last time you paid for someone’s house who burned down or the funeral of a friends loved one who passed away?

[Kieran]

49 minutes ago, Gentoo said:

Playing the point fingers party game

 

He said if money's going to be spent subsidizing healthcare, it's better spent on saving lives than ensuring someone has a risk free sex life

Or he just said that no one is fighting for taxpayer money to go towards chemo patients, which literally isn't true. Liberals have been advocating for universal health care funding by taxpayer money for a while now. But it's fine, the Republicans in Washington just want cancer patients to go bankrupt in order to survive.

 

Maybe, just maybe it's okay to point the finger at the guy who is contradictive or just saying something blatantly wrong, ...weird huh? 

 

No one who wants abortion banned actually fully cares about the baby or the mother. Banning abortion is forcing woman to birth children even if they aren't ready or capable of properly raising them and giving them a decent life. Those children will end up probably being neglected in some way, likely grow up horrifically poor, and even possibly thrown into the horrendously flawed foster care system in this country. Families can be torn apart by an unwanted child. The black community has a notably higher abortion rate while a ton amount of black mothers already have to raise a child on their own. I wonder what would happen to those families if you took their access to abortions away? Oh, but don't worry, conservatives really care about our black communities.. right?

 

Lets not forget what the mother has to deal through. I've had people (mostly men) tell me that mothers get a child aborted for "convenience." That's a word you'll hear thrown a lot from pro-"life" individuals and can't be farther from the truth. Birthing a child takes an incredible physical and emotional toll on the mother and can put their own health and life in jeopardy. That isn't just an inconvenience.

 

People are only against it because of their precious tax money or their own feelings. They don't think for others and consider the actual consequences of banning abortions. It's hilarious how many guys are against a medical procedure that has no effect on their own lives. It contradicts your morals? Don't get an abortion then and find a partner who won't get one either.

 

I don't ever intend on having a child of mine aborted, but my beliefs are rooted in my faith and should stay out of legislation. Individual freedom and choice when it comes to abortion should be protected.

[Gentoo]

4 minutes ago, Kieran said:

It contradicts your morals? Don't get an abortion then and find a partner who won't get one either.

Against murder? Just don't murder people, dumbass.

 

I will fledge this out in about an hour when I get off work, but what an incredibly asinine and shallow take.

 

If you, @BoMand @Easterpinkcould work together to form a post about why you think there's a significant distinction between morality and law that would be extremely helpful in understanding your viewpoint.

[Kieran]

Just now, Gentoo said:

Against murder? Just don't murder people, dumbass.

 

I will fledge this out in about an hour when I get off work, but what an incredibly asinine and shallow take.

Yeah let's compare murder towards terminating the life of a non-independent, unconscious organism the size of a bean. There's no distinction between the two. Lmao.

[BoM]

5 minutes ago, kabLe said:

This seems like an irresponsible take. You don’t have a right to an abortion you have a right towards bodily autonomy. Which I agree, abortion is part of that. But should not be funded by taxpayers. Morals are different per person and change overtime. I seriously doubt it was morally okay to kill your offspring before its born in 1920 when it wasn’t plausible to do. In 1930 weed was morally wrong. You’d be a creten in that age so they made it illegal, should that law not be changed as well? Why is a woman allowed to get an abortion but not do heroin? What makes your morals better then mine or anyone else that disagrees with you?

Feels like you don't really understand morals here? They are better than yours because they are my morals, that is how they work. I weigh my morals above everyone else morals, and in some places my morals align with other people and that is where you see progress. You're looking at this adding way too many factors in, if you'd like me to break it down I am happy to do so.

5 minutes ago, kabLe said:

If your not even willing to recognize the other side there won’t be any compromise just a constant battle between America’s left and right arm until they break each other.

So far you've simply brought up money which doesn't really reflect where our morals *might* collide, so please inform me further here. I will not weigh your worries about money above my morals.

5 minutes ago, kabLe said:

I fully support someone’s right to procure an abortion, however I don’t want to pay for it and if the woman decides to go through with it then I want my choice to not have anything to do with it just like the woman does now. Ya know, like equality. Can you tell me where I’m morally wrong for not wanting to pay for someone else’s irresponsibility, accident, or bad luck? And if anyone wants to come at me for saying I don’t want to pay for an abortion for someone who gets raped, abused or life would be threatened, when’s the last time you paid for someone’s house who burned down or the funeral of a friends loved one who passed away?

As said above...you're very weirdly typing other things into what should just be initially at its base, a clear cut statement based on your morals. Then you go from there. Stop instantly blending it all together.

[kabLe]

Just now, Kieran said:

Yeah let's compare murder towards terminating the life of a non-independent, unconscious organism the size of a bean. There's no distinction between the two. Lmao.

A baby isn’t conscious until about 3 and is most certainly non independent 

[Kieran]

4 minutes ago, kabLe said:

A baby isn’t conscious until about 3 and is most certainly non independent 

Use your critical thinking skills and consider what I probably meant by non-independent. Babies are conscious, or at least way closer to conscious and are actually aware of their surroundings. Most abortions take place before they can even feel pain.

 

I'm not going to argue with people who make stupid comparisons.

[Gentoo]

3 minutes ago, Kieran said:

Yeah let's compare murder towards terminating the life of a non-independent, unconscious organism the size of a bean. There's no distinction between the two. Lmao.

I can't tell if you're misreading the point intentionally or not. You made the case that people should pack up their moral convictions and live them out through their own lives, NOT campaigning for society to move in favor of what is right. I think that notion is ridiculous and completely contrary to what you and most other people actually believe and live out.

[kabLe]

1 minute ago, Kieran said:

Use your critical thinking skills and consider what I probably meant by non-independent. Babies are conscious, or at least way closer to conscious and are actually aware of their surroundings. Most abortions take place before they can even feel pain.

 

I'm not going to argue with people who make stupid comparisons.

It’s been proven that babies are not self aware which is what I assumed you were alluding too. If you mean conscious as in contextually what the word means then your just completely wrong. Use correct terms or don’t argue lol. I don’t think you understand the difference between instinct and being self aware

[Kieran]

Just now, Gentoo said:

I can't tell if you're misreading the point intentionally or not. You made the case that people should pack up their moral convictions and live them out through their own lives, NOT campaigning for society to move in favor of what is right. I think that notion is ridiculous and completely contrary to what you and most other people actually believe and live out.

I'm making this argument for the topic of abortion. Abortion only affects the individual choosing to get the abortion, not counting the fetus here for reasons many of us explained earlier. I'm sure you are smart enough to understand how murder differs from that?