Mass Shootings, American Pride, Gun Laws...

[lynxie]

Welp the post is here, feel free to go out about gun laws and whatnot without getting 1984ed.

 

Either way, This post is made because of the recent incidents in America, looking worse and worse every day. Uvalde, Tulsa Hospital Shooting, Buffalo, Michigan Stanwood, and more. Why does this keep happening? Surely you can't say, "oh well because the American populace doesn't have enough guns!" or "Despite these shootings, FrEedOM!" or "Guns dont kill people, people kill people!" Which is such a stupid outlook, the weapon kills, the person behind it triggers. Sure a gun left alone won't kill someone, but guns weren't made to be left to dust away in your attic.

 

America is so caught in their love for Freedom; thats its causing so many or our own people dead or shot over what? Self protection? The 2nd amendment?  Fighting fire with fire will never stop or fix any of the issues currently going on, either we get incredibly strict gun laws, with heavy background checks, mental checks, a license, etc. and allow people with guns. Or we remove em all together, "But the people who obtain guns illegally!!!!!" There is such a small fraction of people who will go out of there way to actually obtain a gun illegally, your pocket stealing criminal doesn't commit mass shootings, insane psychos with guns do.

 

I used to be fine with guns up until recently, but now I genuinely fear that one guy is gonna pull up next to my job in his normal Toyota, pull out a big gun and kill me because I got more melanin than him. 
 

Welp, go off folks.

[Infinityward]

If we want to fix this problem people need to talk about viable and pragmatic solutions.

 

First we need to figure out what type of gun violence we're trying to solve here, obviously we'd like to solve all of it but the majority of discussion right now is centered around "Mass Shootings". Mass Shootings make up an extremely small percentage of American gun violence yet are the center of discussion when it comes to the gun debate in America. This is because Mass Shootings are extremely unique, it's usually innocent people going about their day gunned down by some far right/left/nazi/incel/whatever. Hearing about a grocery store or school being shot up hits a lot closer to home to people than gang violence in Chicago or a Robbery gone wrong in New York.

 

Banning all guns is not in the realm of possibility, there are more guns than people in America and taking them away would most likely result in extreme violence across America the likes you've never seen. Also to repeal the Second Amendment you'd need a supermajority in both the House and Senate and would need 2/3 of states to ratify the new Amendment so that's most likely not happening in our lifetime.

 

Alright so lets talk about banning certain types of weapons... Obviously the most talked about is the AR-15 as many recent Mass Shooters have chosen it to carry out their attacks, but would banning it solve anything? The majority of American gun violence involves handguns; rifles and more specifically AR-15's make up a small percentage of overall gun violence. The majority of the discussion that goes on around the AR-15 is brain rot. The majority of people get their info from Action Movies and TV Shows and think that the AR-15 is some machine gun that can mow down thousands of people at once. The AR-15 isn't unique, it's not some sort of magical killing machine, it doesn't fire faster than other weapons, it's not a military rifle. That's the problem with banning a certain weapon, there's a multitude of weapons that fire the same exact caliber as the AR-15 but look less "scary" so nobody ever talks about them.

 

Example:

 

 

Both semi-auto, both fire the 5.56 round, but one looks militaristic and one looks like a hunting rifle.

 

 

And whatever security theater Cali is doing solves nothing.

 

 

Banning all rifles doesn't seem like it would solve the problem either. Virginia Tech was a Mass Shooting that killed 32 people carried out by a man with two handguns and Columbine was carried out with pistols and shotguns as well. 

 

1 hour ago, lynxie said:

"But the people who obtain guns illegally!!!!!" There is such a small fraction of people who will go out of there way to actually obtain a gun illegally, your pocket stealing criminal doesn't commit mass shootings, insane psychos with guns do.

 

That's extremely naïve to say, banning guns and keeping them out of the country might work for an island like Australia or New Zealand, but we share a border with Mexico which has an immense Cartel problem. If we banned guns the Cartels would ramp up their already existing gun smuggling business and funnel thousands of weapons into the United States, so until that problem is solved good luck. Also you defeated your own point, if someone is an insane psycho wouldn't they be the ones to go out of their way to find a weapon?

 

 

 

So let's talk about viable solutions. I suppose you could limit magazine capacity, it only takes a few seconds to reload but every second counts in an Active Shooter situation. We could put more focus on recognizing the warning signs of a possible Mass Shooter, the Buffalo shooter and the Texas shooter both had a history of animal abuse and torture yet it seems nothing was done about them. We could also require a mental health screening before purchasing any firearm and that would almost definitely prevent some Mass Shootings.

 

This problem is unique to America and very difficult to solve, but we need to talk about viable solutions and stop with this "Ban all guns" shit because it's never happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kabLe]

2 hours ago, lynxie said:

Welp the post is here, feel free to go out about gun laws and whatnot without getting 1984ed.

 

Either way, This post is made because of the recent incidents in America, looking worse and worse every day. Uvalde, Tulsa Hospital Shooting, Buffalo, Michigan Stanwood, and more. Why does this keep happening? Surely you can't say, "oh well because the American populace doesn't have enough guns!" or "Despite these shootings, FrEedOM!" or "Guns dont kill people, people kill people!" Which is such a stupid outlook, the weapon kills, the person behind it triggers. Sure a gun left alone won't kill someone, but guns weren't made to be left to dust away in your attic.

 

America is so caught in their love for Freedom; thats its causing so many or our own people dead or shot over what? Self protection? The 2nd amendment?  Fighting fire with fire will never stop or fix any of the issues currently going on, either we get incredibly strict gun laws, with heavy background checks, mental checks, a license, etc. and allow people with guns. Or we remove em all together, "But the people who obtain guns illegally!!!!!" There is such a small fraction of people who will go out of there way to actually obtain a gun illegally, your pocket stealing criminal doesn't commit mass shootings, insane psychos with guns do.

 

I used to be fine with guns up until recently, but now I genuinely fear that one guy is gonna pull up next to my job in his normal Toyota, pull out a big gun and kill me because I got more melanin than him. 
 

Welp, go off folks.

So you think an insane psycho won’t learn to build a bomb or simply drive an SUV through a school?

 

I figured it would be obvious but gun control will not stop mass killings. You could get rid of every gun in America and people will still find a way to commit atrocities. Saying this could have been avoided had we gotten rid of guns is disingenuous and does nothing to solve the actual problem. 

[lynxie]

1 minute ago, kabLe said:

So you think an insane psycho won’t learn to build a bomb or simply drive an SUV through a school?

 

I figured it would be obvious but gun control will not stop mass killings. You could get rid of every gun in America and people will still find a way to commit atrocities. Saying this could have been avoided had we gotten rid of guns is disingenuous and does nothing to solve the actual problem. 

How often do people decide to ram their vehicles through buildings? Might come to your surprise, but guns are a hell of a lot cheaper than a car. And even if some psychopath were to commit a mass murder, sometimes using a car might not be the most cost effective option. Building bombs, although very plausible, those are cracked down on a lot, not many bombings in America. Yes I do remember the Boston Bombing and the one that happened like 2 years ago, but it's really not going to go unnoticed when someone is buying bomb supplies.

 

18 minutes ago, Infinityward said:

If we want to fix this problem people need to talk about viable and pragmatic solutions.

 

First we need to figure out what type of gun violence we're trying to solve here, obviously we'd like to solve all of it but the majority of discussion right now is centered around "Mass Shootings". Mass Shootings make up an extremely small percentage of American gun violence yet are the center of discussion when it comes to the gun debate in America. This is because Mass Shootings are extremely unique, it's usually innocent people going about their day gunned down by some far right/left/nazi/incel/whatever. Hearing about a grocery store or school being shot up hits a lot closer to home to people than gang violence in Chicago or a Robbery gone wrong in New York.

 

Banning all guns is not in the realm of possibility, there are more guns than people in America and taking them away would most likely result in extreme violence across America the likes you've never seen. Also to repeal the Second Amendment you'd need a supermajority in both the House and Senate and would need 2/3 of states to ratify the new Amendment so that's most likely not happening in our lifetime.

 

Alright so lets talk about banning certain types of weapons... Obviously the most talked about is the AR-15 as many recent Mass Shooters have chosen it to carry out their attacks, but would banning it solve anything? The majority of American gun violence involves handguns; rifles and more specifically AR-15's make up a small percentage of overall gun violence. The majority of the discussion that goes on around the AR-15 is brain rot. The majority of people get their info from Action Movies and TV Shows and think that the AR-15 is some machine gun that can mow down thousands of people at once. The AR-15 isn't unique, it's not some sort of magical killing machine, it doesn't fire faster than other weapons, it's not a military rifle. That's the problem with banning a certain weapon, there's a multitude of weapons that fire the same exact caliber as the AR-15 but look less "scary" so nobody ever talks about them.

 

Example:

 

 

Both semi-auto, both fire the 5.56 round, but one looks militaristic and one looks like a hunting rifle.

 

 

And whatever security theater Cali is doing solves nothing.

 

 

Banning all rifles doesn't seem like it would solve the problem either. Virginia Tech was a Mass Shooting that killed 32 people carried out by a man with two handguns and Columbine was carried out with pistols and shotguns as well. 

 

 

That's extremely naïve to say, banning guns and keeping them out of the country might work for an island like Australia or New Zealand, but we share a border with Mexico which has an immense Cartel problem. If we banned guns the Cartels would ramp up their already existing gun smuggling business and funnel thousands of weapons into the United States, so until that problem is solved good luck. Also you defeated your own point, if someone is an insane psycho wouldn't they be the ones to go out of their way to find a weapon?

 

 

 

So let's talk about viable solutions. I suppose you could limit magazine capacity, it only takes a few seconds to reload but every second counts in an Active Shooter situation. We could put more focus on recognizing the warning signs of a possible Mass Shooter, the Buffalo shooter and the Texas shooter both had a history of animal abuse and torture yet it seems nothing was done about them. We could also require a mental health screening before purchasing any firearm and that would almost definitely prevent some Mass Shootings.

 

This problem is unique to America and very difficult to solve, but we need to talk about viable solutions and stop with this "Ban all guns" shit because it's never happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

based. entirely based. 

 

You're right, it is naïve to say, "Ban all guns" or whatever I said, and the point with cartels, etc had really good insight I didn't take the time to look into. 

 

I've always been on the staple of AR-15s are not as bad as people interpret them to be. Reducing mag capacity is a great option. Theres many things I'd want to counter my statements with, but I don't know shit about guns to want to say it without sounding dumb. Either way, a lot of what you said I already agree with. 

 

29 minutes ago, Infinityward said:

Also you defeated your own point, if someone is an insane psycho wouldn't they be the ones to go out of their way to find a weapon?

 

Also, with the psycho thing, if we are on basis that they are your typical 18-24 year old mentally fucked person, I don't think it'd be easy for them to find a gun illegally. Unless maybe it is easier than Im thinking. Join a gang, free gun? Maybe, but I doubt they'd take the time to do all that. A lot of these shootings happen with legally owned guns, as its easier to obtain. Even if it were banned, it'd be even harder to find the right guy who sells the right shit. Not impossible, but very implausible.

 

also please note- I made this thread so y'all could have fun with your fingers and type away, this'll be my last reply, guns are not my area of expertise

[delirium]

This is what it looks like when appeals to emotion is the foundational basis in a discussion for an issue as nuanced as gun ownership in America. 

[Hawks]

I'm chiming in because the recent events in your star-spangled country have affected my country, which already has a strict and very intrusive background check for gun ownership/purchasing license here in Canada.

 

From an outsider perspective, a good start to lower the chance of these atrocities starts with essential firearms control and registry across your nation, not state by state. Doing some quick research, some states control all the laws behind firearms respectively. Texas is one of those states. I believe it would be a start to have federal law to be on top when it comes to a uneasy and delicate topic such as firearms control, no one state should have a differing opinion on what counts as "safe" purchasing and usage of firearms. Having this laid out and set in stone by your federal powers in my opinion would be a easy start to *lowering* not preventing mass shootings. Doing so you could regulate licenses to purchase and use firearms, in Canada you have to take safety courses with tests you have to have a 85% or above on to pass. There is also intrusive questions about your mental health that have a chance at preventing your acquisition of a firearms license.

 

Was gonna talk about banning firearms as well but infinity hit the nail on the head there. Here in Canada the list is going to keep growing because of the events in the states and 90% of the bans are because the weapons have a militaristic design and look "threatening" to most of the gun ban advocates here in Canada. We are officially on the verge of only being allowed to load 5 rounds into a cartridge when using a firearm if this new bill gets passed in the House of Commons.

 

Also if you are saying only insane psychos commit atrocities you are incredibly naive. Some of the worst atrocities in history were carried out by some of the smartest people, who up until they committed the atrocity were active and contributing members of society.

 

Overall there isn't a blanket solution to this whole situation. There will be toes stepped on regardless of what direction America takes, but there is steps to prevent and lower the chance of mass shootings in the country. You just need to get everybody on the same page first which I know will probably never happen.

 

 

[Phoenix_]

6 hours ago, lynxie said:

Either way, This post is made because of the recent incidents in America, looking worse and worse every day. Uvalde, Tulsa Hospital Shooting, Buffalo, Michigan Stanwood, and more. Why does this keep happening? Surely you can't say, "oh well because the American populace doesn't have enough guns!" or "Despite these shootings, FrEedOM!" or "Guns dont kill people, people kill people!" Which is such a stupid outlook, the weapon kills, the person behind it triggers. Sure a gun left alone won't kill someone, but guns weren't made to be left to dust away in your attic.

I do not know anyone that says we need MORE guns. There are quite literally more people than guns in this country. Source

 

Also small counter point but there are guns that are treated as collectibles such as older weapons, war weapons, etc... Which there are surprisingly more than you would think.

 

6 hours ago, lynxie said:

America is so caught in their love for Freedom; thats its causing so many or our own people dead or shot over what? Self protection? The 2nd amendment?  Fighting fire with fire will never stop or fix any of the issues currently going on, either we get incredibly strict gun laws, with heavy background checks, mental checks, a license, etc. and allow people with guns. Or we remove em all together,

 

 

America is one of the very few countries founded on an idea, rather than geographic borders, ethnicity, religion, etc. We were founded on the idea of freedom from our oppressors so it is engrained in the very founding of this country that people want the means to do the same again. The current political climate is the very reason why this keeps happening this way. The general populous tend to cry out for extreme measures, when a measure (Bipartisan Background Checks Act) that supposedly had bipartisan support and was PASSED by the House sits in congress waiting for the senate to do something with it. How does anyone expect further gun control measures when something that has support from both parties can not even get passed? 

 

Removing them altogether lol what a joke. Many (mainly republicans, also the majority of gun owners) people had a fucking conniption when we made them wear a piece of cloth over their face to prevent COVID from spreading as easy... they protested the masks and publicly caused issues by not complying with a simple measure to protect people. How do you think it would go if the government tried to take their guns? Call me a fucking nutcase but I bargain if there was a government-mandated buyback or seizure of guns, there would be some sort of civil insurrection or civil war. 

 

6 hours ago, lynxie said:

"But the people who obtain guns illegally!!!!!" There is such a small fraction of people who will go out of there way to actually obtain a gun illegally, your pocket stealing criminal doesn't commit mass shootings, insane psychos with guns do.

 

This is the furthest thing from the truth. You could not be more wrong. In a report published by the DOJ, they cite that "Among prisoners who possessed a gun during their offense, 90% did not obtain it from a retail source", meaning that... you guessed it! The MAJORITY of guns used in crime, and especially violent crime are obtained illegally. 

 

For the case of school shootings and mass shootings, yes, those people do obtain them legally but I don't think they necessarily care about what happens after they do what they do. But what about the 19,000 other murders by gun last year? That's where the majority of guns are obtained illegally. 

 

I am fully in favor of stricter gun laws including more lengthy background checks, required gun training to own a gun, hell I'm not even opposed to needing a permit to own a gun that would including the background checks, training, psych eval, etc. But restricting some guns from being purchased will do absolutely nothing because criminals that want to use those guns in a crime will obtain them since they are out there. 

 

Sticking with the emotional appeal of "guns hurt people " will get the country nowhere. Based on the statistics, training safer gun owners (in my opinion) is the best way to reduce gun crime, or even maybe some sort of anonymous illegal gun buyback to get the guns used in crimes off the streets for financial compensation.  

 

 

[Manny]

Arguing semantics on "Mass Shootings" = weirdo

"you can kill people with other things" = weirdo

"ummm actually, banning guns won't do anything" = weirdo

 

Vile.

 

 

"The problem is unique to America and very difficult to solve" = weirdo + Oxymoron

 

Other countries were able to solve the problem before it ever became a problem. Goofy ass.

[kabLe]

3 hours ago, Manny said:

Arguing semantics on "Mass Shootings" = weirdo

"you can kill people with other things" = weirdo

"ummm actually, banning guns won't do anything" = weirdo

 

Vile.

 

 

"The problem is unique to America and very difficult to solve" = weirdo + Oxymoron

 

Other countries were able to solve the problem before it ever became a problem. Goofy ass.

So whats your plan Manny? Should we get rid of the second amendment altogether?

 

Okay lets do it. Whats step 1? Putting in legislation that bans the sale and possession of any and all firearms? Okay I'm with you. So how do we go about getting rid of the guns people have already paid for to legally own that we have decided are now illegal? Do you go to their house and ask them nicely to turn them in? Probably going to go with firearms to collect their firearms, ya know just in case. Also, how do you force them to turn in their guns without invading their privacy and becoming a tyrannical form of government which would probably make people not want to give you their guns?

 

Okay, now after flexing your tyranny over the period of a year you've finally got rid of all the registered firearms. Now what? No more gun violence? What about the people who didn't have a registered firearm? 

 

Also, jumbo shrimp is an oxymoron, america having a unique problem of being flooded with hundreds of millions of guns to an extent no other country has ever had or currently has and it being a difficult problem to solve, is not an oxy moron. You're just fucking retarded.

[destroylonelyfan2011]

2 hours ago, Manny said:

Arguing semantics on "Mass Shootings" = weirdo

"you can kill people with other things" = weirdo

"ummm actually, banning guns won't do anything" = weirdo

 

Vile.

 

 

"The problem is unique to America and very difficult to solve" = weirdo + Oxymoron

 

Other countries were able to solve the problem before it ever became a problem. Goofy ass.

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