Goddamn, it's a beautiful night to be using a keyboard again. Now that I'm finally done rebuilding my PC, I can make a decent post~
This map has been popular for the longest time. Honestly, I believe it's because when the map vote plugin popup appears, everyone is sick of seeing it, and they just spam the 4 through 6 keys. I've had many players of the server admit to this. Because of the plugin's awful randomizing, usually the same few maps appear over and over again. I believe that this map is played on so often because people are too lazy to actually take a moment and vote for a map. Newer players don't even know most of the maps, and it's usually only the regulars the put in a decent vote from my perspective. The case of admitted laziness is
what caused me to (yet again) visit our well-known Spy_vs_Spy map earlier today.*
The map overall is very gridlined and square, with almost nothing being perpendicular with most objects on the map. This forces a LOT of 90 degree corners that makes combat very stale, and most engagements favor the unit who can peak corners, and allows almost no objects to use as partial cover. The visuals on the map are horribly bland, and nearly greyscale, with the exception of grass, fences, and water outside. This allows even the newest of players to spot another enemy from across the map if you're indoors. It also allows you to register objects and "blood splatters" quickly as well, allow you to witness where, and from your friends or enemies have been shot or killed at.
As for entities(?) on the map, such as the "big cage", any door that slides vertically to open or close, and the various deathgames, they are low quality, and seems unpolished. It seems like this map is long overdue for an update that makes certain games more enjoyable, a big one being dodgeball, and climb. But, I'll get back to that in a moment. The big cage has "spots" around it, they vary in size, and in some spots, you can shoot through with a handgun/shotgun, some you can shoot with only a rifle, and some cannot shoot through at all. It is horribly inconsistent, but it may have been made that way on purpose. I highly doubt it though, as the only way you will be able to tell the "penetrative material" from the other spots is unknown, unless you fire upon it.
The vertical doors will easily kill anyone who gets caught within a couple seconds, you have the ability to move yourself between the door and the bulkhead, but you need to be quick, and it still damages armor, and health. You are allowed a bit more time with armor as it chews through armor before effecting health. I've seen many T's die this way, as a CT will close cell doors as T's leave their cells. Sometimes it is an accident, other times, it is not. As an admin, it can a difficult call. (Freekilling, Teamkilling)
The deathgames, and not-so-deadlygames, need a bit of rework as well, but I will give a bit of praise torwards the Traitor deathgame as it's something I haven't seen on any other map. However, the rooms only allow a very small amount of players, and it is easy to kill a player if you try to cram too many bodies into on small room when the door shuts. It's causes wasted time, and unnecessary deaths. Not to mention I've heard the entire server uproar on who should be the traitor. As for it being positive or negative outcome of the deathgame, I'm uncertain.
Dodgeball on this map is silly, as the ball is scripted to be so heavy that it is barely movable with a knife, but will easily get knocked around by gunfire. The dodgeball itself causes damage, not the force of impact, so many unknowing T's have died touching the ball attempting to push/knock it around. This amusing, but inpractical, and not that fun.
If the most popular order isn't "All T's have a freeday outside, not inside, no inside hallways." then it is "All T's go to climb, be in the water." This climb is so cramped it's almost impossible to shoot a rogue T in the mist of all his prisoner friends at the bottom. But that's not a main concern, there is not a lot of space down there, and a lot of prisoners enjoy using the teleporter at the bottom of climb/in the water. The teleporter works well, however, it always causes players to get stuck, and with the !stuck command, it can lead to one player pushing another into the teleporter, causing bad things to happen. Such as getting shot.
But, enough about the games, let me discuss briefly on what others have said in this thread about vent placements, routes, and map layout in general. This map to me feels waaaay too small for 20+ players. The cell numbers only go up to 11, so I imagine the creator of this map wasn't anticipating more prisoners then 11, but I'm going to put that aside, as I' would like to focus on how we use the servers, and how it is played.
The vents and their routes are not spaced apart enough, they follow as same general path, and randomly some vents will completely refuse to break some rounds! These unbreakable vents are then exploited by others by tossing a grenade on them, causing everyone to hear a horrible noise. It's gotten so horrible on days that I've had to ban a player for a short amount of time for refusing to listen after I just got done kicking him. That alone should spark the developer to take action, and make a quick fix.
Hidden weapons and secrets. This is what makes PB maps interesting. Teleporters, vents, hidden weapon caches, easy tricks and areas you can go into that can spark the beginning of a prisoner riot: It's exceptionally limited on this map. There is one teleporter that is T usage only in the Big Box behind big cage, the box itself can be used to hide in, as it has a one way window with limited view in the front. The only weapons obtainable (Other than armory...) is under cell 7 in a vent (random spawn: Zeus, P250, Scout, maybe others), Outside behind a 2D bush in the corner (Zeus), in a hidden area above deathcrate (P250, smoke grenade), and literally on the deck in breakfloor near the controls (P250), and random grenades, and only grenades in cells. That's a very low amount of firepower compared to every other map I've experienced on PB servers. So, if you're in a situation, A VERY COMMON EXAMPLE BEING "Freeday outside, no inside, no inside hallways.", unless you catch a retarded CT walking outside, the only weaponry in that area is a one-shot Zeus. It's enough to spark something, but most likely than not, the only two exits from outside are always camped, and anyone who attempts to leave dies without a fighting chance. It's a Horribly CT sided scenario, and I've seen it abused way too often.
Overall, the map is okay at best, it's great for those learning how to play JB to play on, but, for everyone else, it's lackluster shows: It feels like a map-in-testing with all the flaws with it. It's a decent map, but it grows old at a remarkable rate. When I first saw the mapname, I was secretly praying that is would be Mad Magazines Spy VS Spy, and when it finally loaded, and I got in, I was very pleased with the theme. Being someone who has read a lot of media, and played a lot of games with Spy VS Spy, I really enjoyed the theme: The spies everywhere, the fonts, the music playing when you're in the CT spawn, and the silly smoke grenade "masks" you find around the map. It's not a terrible theme, but I'm disappointed that it isn't used on a better made map.
HOWEVER, as much as I hate playing on this map, I feel like if the developer put some more work into this map, tweaking some objects, perhaps making a larger map more suited for 20+ players, it could be a lot more enjoyable for everyone. But, unfortunately, to my knowledge, this has not happened yet, causing me to vote against this map. The map should have had a lot of changes with as much manhours have been played in this map, but it's stale and unupdated.
If the developer makes major changes to the map, (This does not include the Christmas version of the map) I'd be more than willing to throw it on the forums, and drag @nuclearonion with me to test it out. Hell, I wouldn't even mind trying to add a few things myself with the Dev's permission. But, until then, I'm content with letting this one go.
TL;DR I voted yes for removal. If you keep calling freedays 3+ rounds in a row, you're gonna have a bad time. We need more Spy VS Spy themed maps.
(Boop notifcation for @Wawa, and @Goku, because wall of text)
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