Spiritwind

Necroing this thread as I'm curious if adding a landing page made the servers thrive?

I'm just pointing out that things are dead and you guys are worried about the wrong things, while acting like the fact things are dead is just a temporary issue. I don't need a lecture about how giving out staff works. Especially not from someone that should never have had their perm removed, let alone promoted to BD. But, that is a modern SG trend and a symptom of what killed it. The fact your post has 8 likes and only 1 of which is an actual regular member demonstrates my point of what SG has become. You can live in denial all you want, but the reality is that SG has failed under TERRIBLE leadership. The fact is, only ONE person who has joined the forums in the LAST 3 YEARS has viewed this thread. More than 70% of the people who have viewed this thread are either currently admin+ or have been admin. That is what SG has become. It is just crazy to me that knowing this, the changes upper management is suggesting is a Supporter rework and a few promotions into a staff list that is already 50x bigger than its active player count. Just go ahead and continue the 12 year old "Join my minecraft server and get admin ... please don't leave" move. We've literally resorted to BEGGING people who were PERMANENTLY banned to come back and run and manage the servers and communities. Yes, I get it, some people like to chat on discord, but even a 14 year old mmo guild I'm in on discord has more activity than the SG discord. It's the afternoon of a summer break day, and the SG discord general channel at this time has only 3 messages total today, and those 3 messages are from Admin+. It also has a total of 0 people in voice chat. The other channels have some messages, but it seems like no different than the shoutbox activity prior to discord - not really of relevance but just people blurting random thoughts with some light communication involved. "because someone here wants to do it." Leadership isn't about a free-for-all where people only want to do what they want to do. It's about guiding and directing people, and encouraging them to do even the hard things they normally would not want to do. If they are only doing the things they want to, then why in gods name do we have more higher ranking staff than members? Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention. Our servers currently have 0 people in them. None of the servers have had more than 2 people in them so far today. Over the last 48 hours, only one server has had more than 6 players. That was only for about 2 hours.

Then why is the announcement post about new admins and a subscriber rework?

You know, I honestly don't know. Gaming has since evolved past large group social seeking gaming into more of a private party social gaming. Server browsers are all but gone, nearly every game supports private party groups, and there is no longer a need for giant networks like this, except in very niche games, and even then, everyone is familiar with clients like discord that even though people might join a server, they aren't going to seek out the community or the discord for that server beyond basic support. People are also in dozens of discord servers. I can't name how many I've joined, used for a single day for support in some way, and haven't opened that discord since. Pretty much the only appeal communities like SG have are people in our generations, who seek out the nostalgia of it, or communities centered around social differences or beliefs. My honest opinion, servers aren't really needed anymore, expect for what the community wants to do. SG does not have to have a counter-strike server. It does not need to have a rust server. But, if the community wants to have one, then by all means, keep one active. Gaming Communities are no longer measured in success by their servers. Servers in general are becoming outdated. People are also no longer interested in the 'gaming community' that runs a server either. It's just another brand in the mass of brands. Chances are the next time they play the game, they'll just click the matchmaking button with whatever settings they want. Short of survival games, there is literally no need or desire to join the same server in modern gaming. Instead, I think we should be focusing on both discord and the website/forums. SG right now has very limited, if not any, discoverability. Short of typing Steam Gamers, you'll have trouble finding anything regarding it on Google difficult. When was the last time someone put work into SEO? I know it was mentioned that the website is a technical nightmare, but honestly, it's probably far more important than anything else that could be done. What can we offer to bring more traffic here? Perhaps a resource network of how to run and operate your own gaming server? Maybe some useful SG plugins for games that you have to come here to download for your own server? Not sure if that would cause member retention, but at least it'd be some traffic. There is still a need for a social setting like the forums though. If there wasn't, Reddit would not still be around. You have to come to a realization though Dom, Steam-Gamers is all but dead. It hasn't been months or a short time. Its been years, and it has been in a constant decline even under your leadership. I'm not saying you have to resign, I don't think it'd make a difference at this point. What was done is done. But, what you guys are doing isn't going to bring new players. You can probably count the amount of people excited by your announcement on a single hand. Do something different to expect different results. Right now you are doing the same exact thing as Edge Gamers, and they are dying. You are doing the same thing as Hellsgamers, and they are dead. You are doing the same thing as 99% of other gaming communities that no longer exist, and SG is all but gone because of it.

You don't need admins, higher ranking staff, or a rework of the donations system for people playing in voice chat on discord.

" lower population numbers in recent times" "struggled with activity in recent months" It's been going on for years. Not in recent times or months. The crazy thing is, nothing is changing. People are not leaving because the supporter system needs a rework. People are not leaving because the right people aren't being promoted. People are not leaving because you haven't rebooted the same server for the 10th time. People aren't leaving because of the community name. People are leaving because of poor leadership and a lack of direction, organization, and sense of community. Hell, the only thing you need to do to become BD now is to have gotten banned at one point and then just be active in discord. It's a toxic environment, with the only people sticking around being those that feed on the constant narcissistic backslap that seems to go around, and a limited few who just miss the old days, hope that some day things will get better, and don't want to see it gone forever. There really is just a point where you have to sit down and look at what SG has become under the current leadership. Just because it has a server up and some people that talk in discord does not mean its surviving. At the time of writing this, in the last 12 hours, only 1 person has attempted to connect/join an SG server. That is where we are at. That is the state and health of the 'community'. Community Faith in SG leadership < 0 Honestly, at this point, why don't we just have a timer and if you play on an SG server for 30 minutes, you automatically get Admin. Would save you guys some time. Reminds me of joining a desperate 12 year olds minecraft and they scream 'if you stay I'll give you admin' into chat.

Thought people who come back aren't important and don't matter? Congrats though, while I can't say I think it's a good thing, you have put a lot of time and work into SG since your perm removal, and that is something that does not happen much anymore.

Thanks for the update, much appreciated.

A Jailbreak server might actually get me on again. It would be neat, though I bet it'd be depressing with 'old man' me not having the same reaction speed as before.

Do wish we could keep this serious so some actual good might come of it. Though, I do appreciate some of the humor.

I see my shadow ban expired, thanks. @jazzytake this any way you want. From your ban appeal: "It took a lot of years for me to grow up and figure out how to actually interact correctly with people rather than being polarizing all the time like I was before" There is no other way to describe each and every response you have made to me other than 'polarizing'. You are very defensive, you are very passive aggressive, and you have been trying to demean me from the get go. You are doing a very poor job of interacting with people. I actually walked into this with respect for you as it was obvious you were putting a lot of effort into the servers. That respect has since been totally lost. The right thing to have done during all this would have been to try and sit down and actually talk. Try and hash things out. Instead of telling me I'm inactive and my opinion does not matter, try and get me active and helping. Try and get the other people in here active and helping. That is what leadership does. The only person I've actually gained a little respect for in all this is @Dominic. At least he listened, remained calm, didn't try and belittle people talking against him, and tried to make suggestions to move forward, even if it may have felt like a charade.

@Caution @Dominic @jazzy The most activity SG has seen in the last 2 years has been a thread calling for your resignation. Let that sink in. You can post whatever you want defending yourselves, you can delete and ban however many +1 posts calling for your resignation; but it happened. That is the strength of your current leadership.

Yes, you banned the ones who werent because they spoke out against you. Your excuses for banning them were plum stupid. Your narassism is showing since your power was called out.

This is exactly what this entire thread has been. Members speaking out and staff having a conversation that consists of them trying to put a boot in it.

Jazzy has been doing nothing but making "I know more than you and I'm the boss" posts. Hes literally not given any ground at all on ANYTHING. This has not been a discussion, not in the least. Him and Dom have been doing their best to give the appearance of a convo, while really just flipping us the bird and trying to act like we are stupid and have no clue what is going on. True leadership and true listening skills. SG is no longer a community, so many have spoken out about it, and so many have been banned or disregarded. It just hits the nail further into the board. I urge you Huwa, read his long ass reply to me and tell me where that post isn't completely one sided and telling me to go fuck myself.

Jazzy, your wall of posts is just you shitting on us and proving our point that SG is ran by tyranical people driving it into the ground. SG is not doing well. There are not active players. Its top server is rank #250 in tracked servers in a SAME AS DEAD GAME. Get real. This place is a disaster, and your ideas have not been helping. This is the sort of leadership that brought SG here. I'm done with this conversation. Dictators are going to be Dictators, and you, Dom, and Caution do not give two shits about SG. All you care about is your title and the perceived power you get with it. The fact you are completly disregarding and shitting on so many members of SG shows it. This is what SG has become under your leadership. Enjoy the ship you set sail on.

Exactly what Delirium said, with the exception that you keep pointing out what you think, without actually commenting on the points anyone else is making against your ideas. Of course the forums are dead. Staff abandoned the forums when it was the foundation of the community. As pointed out in discord chat, nowhere in the Gmod Server does it mention the forums, but right off the bat it mentions discord. Trying to say "well players are joining discord instead of the forums" is baseless, as of course they are only going to join discord when they don't know about the forums... Not only that, I don't even see mention of the forums really on discord. I don't see any form of incentive to join the forums. Forums help retain members. The proof you are looking for is in this very thread. As delirium pointed out, you have people who have been members for 15 years commenting on this thread. As delirium pointed out (and I in the past here), discord does not retain members. Its just another server channel in the 50+ channels most people are in. I'm in about a dozen discord channels. Most, I joined, was active for a week or two, and never left, but haven't looked since. 90% of your members in discord are probably exactly the same. "Even the ones in TTT ... they do not care about the community unless it's to play games" That is where our leadership has failed. At least one spot. To make a community, you have to form an environment people want to be a part of. When you joined, you didn't just stick to a single server. No, you joined the forums, discovered we had more to offer, and then got banned. Point is, you are drawing in a useless crowd. It will not build SG up. It is a placebo of numbers. You admit as much yourself. But, the numbers help you feel like its a success, so you want to remove one of the true indicators of the pace things are actually at. Discord: Pros: Easy to have light convos. Easy to create an account. Voice Chat Channels (Although currently mostly unused) right at your fingertips. Easy to quickly burry mistakes. Huge Numbers of inactive players showing active Cons: Terrible at data management. Terrible at providing information. Very disorganized and overwhelming for new people with walls of information. Terrible amounts of useless bot spam that blow out 'stats' that make things look more active. Does not stand out from the other mass of 1000s of gaming communities. Just another generic channel in the horde. Useless donations with 'perks' that don't actually seem to do anything real to help. No google seo. No email gathering. No user retention. Forums: Pros: Easy data management. Easy Information Tool. Looks professional. Sets us aside from the horde of failing gaming communities. Google SEO and search result potential Server Tracking. Realistic user interaction statistics. Easy to research prior information and events. Email gathering to help with long term retention through event announcements (why don't we have a newsletter?) Already have 23,000+ members Long term users visit the forums regularly. Helps to show that SG has been around, and will be around if the right choices are made. Future possibilities are endless. The forums can be molded into whatever we want. Discord can only be molded into what discord wants (or spam bots people have created). IS THE FOUNDATION ON WHICH SG HAS BEEN BUILT Cons: Takes staff time to maintain. Is a coding mess currently. Easy for users to see discussions such as this that are going on. Was abandoned "very stupidly" by previous staff. Is harder for users to make accounts. But, long term retention is far higher. There is also a reason donations were much more successful when the forums were active. Anyone who thinks the forums aren't failing because of discord must not have been around much prior to 2018. A lot of work went into the forums, yes, but SG did very well because of it. It really comes down to incentives. There were lots of incentives before to join the forum, now there are 0. You were told all over in the server, by the server and players, to join up and join the convo. Now there is none of that. Yes, even before discord we were having trouble with getting and keeping members on the forums, but that was also after we got rid of most of our forums benefits. We also got rid of the SG Mem and reg system, which were very big attractors to the forums. Now all that attention is on Discord, and it's not really generating very much beyond what the shoutbox previously accomplished.

Yes, I was inactive, but I've also been a member since 2009. I ran another gaming community, and instead of trying to steal SG members, I fed SG members from my gaming community. When we finally disbanded, it actually became a part of SG Minecraft. When you actually genuinely care about a place, instead of just being power hungry and wanting a title, that is the sort of thing you do. The power hungry don't change, they just get better at hiding it. For the last 14 years I have been involved in SG. To give you a reference, that's longer than you lived without SG. 14 years later and I still care enough to check in. I've made some lifetime friends in here, and unforgettable memories. I hate seeing it ran into the ground. I hate seeing what it has become. I hate seeing some of the same staff working their butts off, hoping for change; but continuing just to keep it alive. If you look back at my inactivity, you will see that I left and took a break when similar terrible decisions were made, and the higher staff failed to listen to the community. It's been an ongoing plague, and I've finally reached the point where I'll keep calling it out until I either get banned or change actually happens. If we don't, then the whole community will go under anyways. Way to try and belittle and disregard the criticism though. Sure you say the same thing about the 20 individual accounts you and the staff banned over it. Also, most of your staff thinks the same. They just don't want to get pushed out of the social group.

Another post that hits the nail on the head of exactly what i was talking about. I'm not in your group, so anything I say is just words in the wind. "No offense to you, but you came back in 2017 (?), were mostly inactive for a bit as TA, then left again. I hardly know who you are" So much for being open to criticism and you welcome this sort of talk. You have not done anything to make me hate you, and I don't hate you. I wish you the best in life, and I hope life is good. With that said, I don't think you should have ever been let back into SG, and I made it clear on why I believe that. You being let back into the community is just a symptom of the sickness killing the community. I'm just calling you out, and you aren't use to that. Your admins aren't going to call you out, they don't want to 'end up banned' like half the people who commented support. The rest are all in your social group, and of course they aren't going to call you out. "If the current staff" You keep saying the staff, and that is where I call you out on your crock of shit. 90% of the people posting in here have said exactly that "RESIGN". Your staff isn't calling you out, the whole freaking community is Dominic. This is a community after all, they are the ones that matter. You guys can joke and act like this is some popcorn eating charade, or you can take action. Not my choice and I'm getting tired of trying. When it fails though, just remember it did so under your supreme 'leadership'. This is getting ridiculous because you guys are trying to move on and pretend like nothing happened. I have given pointers here; for you to resign, for inactive staff to resign, and for the remaining active staff to start rebuilding stronger and better, in a community oriented way. Not wasting precious man hours on pointless avenues but instead focus on what matters. The community, populating the servers, and getting people engaged. "don't think we're in the right spot for me to leave the guys in power directionless" Yes, because your direction has really helped a lot. Such a booming community since you became VP

Exact and to a T. Yes, I was inactive as a staff member. Yes, I resigned due to that inactivity. You can bash that behavior all you want, but at least I resigned and passed the position onward. As delirium said, why would anyone dedicate any more time to SG? Its already obvious our opinions matter not, which was one of the main reasons I became inactive as a staff to begin with. That and the lack of assistance in getting servers populated by other staff. It became obvious it was a waste of time, and my priorities became elsewhere. Once nishok brought it up, I agreed and immediately resigned. Seems to go that way with much of the retired staff you are bashing now. We have been giving ideas, but those ideas 'dont want to be bumped up'.

I also want to point out; if the forums are so pointless and left behind, why was it such a big deal when people posted +1 to show support of a prior post in this thread? Should have been no reason to ban people regarding it if these forums were really of such low value to the staff and community of SG. Or, perhaps it was the show of support that was the true infuriator.

Yes, I can see why you would not want to bump this thread. You have been doing your best to bury it and move on since the conversation here got started. More people have been banned in this thread than have joined SG in the last month. We do appreciate your work, and I have no doubt that you mean well, and are one of the few staff members actually spending a lot of time working on SG from what I have seen. With that said, I feel like 99% of the rest of your post is just a big fuck you and a big example of why so many members have been leaving. You literally did nothing but prove my points on why SG is dying. You have had the largest acitivty that SG has probably seen in the last 2 years, and it's all because there was a calling out of the VP to resign, and for the rest of the staff to actually listen to the community. Wake up dude. Hear me out. Do you feel SG is a syndicate of Admins, or a gaming community? You guys have it so BACK ASSWARD it isn't even funny. Dominics post about having asked the higher ups if he should resign is a crock of loaded shit. This is a gaming COMMUNITY, the community have spoken, and the staff have quickly covered it up and "tried not to bump" the post. Again, this is a gaming COMMUNITY, not a community of staff. You deleted and banned about 15 people who agreed, and the only people standing up for him are a couple of staff. I'm sure you guys have jokingly shrugged this off, just like you have during any other similar instance. This is why SG is failing. You don't listen. You get an idea in your head, and yes, that includes you Jazzy; and you run with it regardless of what people say. You make pointless threads asking what the community thinks; and then give a big fat middle finger to anyone that voices objection. I've seen it happen time and time again over the last 5 years. You dedicate countless hours to things that don't matter, and neglect the ideas that do. Nobody is turned off by the hyphen in steam-gamer. You really think people look at that and go "OMG, I need to leave this server right now, how could they hyphen". The Forums have been around since the founding on SG. Unless SG is in dire financial distress, they should not be removed. It is a large amount of SG history, and it is also an easy place for people to search for information regarding the community. It also gives SG great google seo potential. Yes, gaming has changed. Yes, discord is easier to draw members into. But, it is also far easier to just become another in the mass of channels someone is in. I bet you anyone with over 1000 messages in discord is also going to have a few hundred forum posts. But, do you think it was easy back in 2010? Staff worked their asses off to get people on the forums. We gave rewards, there was incentive, it was a requirement to get beyond the basic starter rank in SG. That attention has since been diverted to Discord, and leadership has since diverted their attention as well, so OF COURSE it's going to show that discord is more active than the forums.

Not going to get anywhere with this sort of talk. But, at the same time, I understand the frustration.