Goku

From what I can gather its still split on where people want this to go. If its decided to stick with forced DG for a little while longer, I'll see if people then want to go with the current ruleset, or switch to T limit instead

Removing the time limit and setting the restriction to just the amount of Ts now enables CTs when the server is lower in population to force DGs right off the bat rather than doing typical orders.

To be fair, that kind of shit has been happening long before this rule change. CTs have been doing the "crouch walk here no jumping" for a good amount of time now and CTs have been hungry to raise their KD for much longer. And I agree 100% with this and has been a big part of my discussions with all Ts. I still believe that this rule change will be beneficial in the long run. Hard part is getting through the initial growing pains of change. Which is why I need people to keep giving first hand feedback and experience. Most of what I've been hearing about the server and the changes has been from word of mouth from one or two people. And it's mostly been mixed messages on how people are taking it.

Not entirely sure how I feel about that rebel round ordeal. I'd have to see it in action, but it very much sounds almost like a war day sorta and don't think I'm too fond of the chaos and confusion it'll likely cause.

So the new rules have been live for 4 days now. After day one, restrictions were put in place and for the most part seemed to somewhat fix some people's issues. However from what I can gather, it's still mixed feedback with some liking the change of pace, and some not so much. One thing I wanted to do with these changes was give it a fair amount of time for people to get somewhat used to them and form a solid opinion that wasn't a kneejerk reaction. Sadly work got unexpectedly busy since Tuesday, so I wasn't able to be on first hand nearly as much as I hoped. Since then I've heard some people enjoying it, some people liking it but in between on whether to keep it, and some people flat out just wanting it gone. Four days is a solid length of time IMO to form an opinion on something, so this thread is going to determine the fate of the forced DG rule. Now, before going any further, there is one more possible restriction that has been considered, and that is setting it where CTs can't force deathgames until 2:30 AND there can be no more than 6 Ts alive. But rather than putting this on, I'd much rather just see if we would be better of just flat out removing the rule than adding another restriction to it. So, I'll give this thread a little bit of time for people to post their collected thoughts on the rule change and whether or not we'll just remove the rule entirely since it doesn't quite seem to be going over as smooth as intended. Please vote in the poll and post your thoughts and encourage players that don't typically browse the forums, to put their thoughts here as well. Not going to set a hard time on when any changes would be made because of this thread. Just depends how the feedback goes. I'll give it at least a day or so and potentially do something Christmas day or the 26th. Edit: I'm tired as fuck and going to bed for the night. I'll reply to any posts if needed when I get up in the morning.

Playing with the mindset of disabling any chances Ts have to rebel is what is ruining the JB mentality IMO. It's why you see some CTs act so Hitler-ish, and why you see them order Ts to crouch walk somewhere or freeze while a CT runs to get whatever gun is in pool so the Ts can't use it to rebel. The entire point of the game is for Ts to rebel. In the spirit of the game you need to give them some chance. Just let the map do what it's made to do.

This is one of those "why is this even a problem" type of questions.... Just let the map do what it's intended to do. Yes they're going to die anyway, but that's the mentality that's been harming PB. CTs caring way too much about getting kills and less about just having fun. The fact some provide escape routes is another reason Id rather CTs let the map do its job. If they enter the vent then sure try to shoot them. But I don't agree with the principle of killing them because either they die anyway, or they'll be KOS for entering a vent.

Excuse you....that shit is the bomb. Especially in broccoli and cheese soup... mmmmmmm

Nah fuck that guy. Keep looking.

Please note the changes made here If you have any feedback or suggestions to this new rule additions, please let me know. I gotta head out now to do some things for work, but I should hopefully be home within a few hours. I'll be on my phone so I can try to answer any questions that are asked.

Bumping to explain the new rule change. Highlighted the new parts. CTs CAN NOT force the same death game. The "no repeating orders" rule still applies. CTs can only force deathgames with 2:30 or less left in the round. CTs can only force map-made deathgames. Map-made deathgames are defined as games that are built into the map, and harm/kill the T on its own (such as jump rope or death cube). First Reaction, Last Reaction and Simon Says are the only exceptions to this rule. Those CAN still be forced. So essentially the new addition is setting what/when games can or can't be played. This change sets it where there has to be 2:30 or less left in the round, which gives the Ts ample time to do other things or try to rebel before deathgames can be forced. The map-made deathgames rule effectively stops any bullshit games like "pick a number 1-10" or having the Ts jump from diving board and trying to shoot them in the air. I decided to add FRLR and Simon Says to the list of exceptions given their popularity, overall ease of use and that it still gives CTs some options on maps such as Razor. LR rules are still the same and CTs can still play games that don't fit these requirements, as long as they are optional and aren't forced. I think these changes will address and fix most complaints I've seen the past 24 hours since we added this rule. I ask again that you give it some time to see how it plays out and keep an open mind to it. Thanks for bearing with me as I make this changes and I hope that in the long run this has a good lasting impact on the server.

This is more than just opening up maps. That's a good reason, but it's also to give CTs more opportunities to do shit that isn't "go here for 4 mins" followed by camping and CTs being idiots and being picked off because they aren't paying attention. The time limit rule especially i think will fix the main issue I've been hearing. Going to still allow non-DG orders while giving CTs the option later in the round to force the DG to spice things up and speed the round up.

^ pretty much. That's partially a reason why I'm not as fond of this restriction, but it's still being considered and would help prevent some bullshit from happening. LRs would still be allowed to be forced though.

Restrictions are being added later this afternoon when I get to my computer. One option being considered that will likely be added is that CTs can only force map made deathgames that don't involve the CT killing the Ts. Still finalizing it in the ca section. Also likely adding a time set where CTs can't force DGs before X time. That X is still being set since I'm leaning towards a few different ones.

Talking out of my ass here, but I thought we did have a hidden slot for the gotv bot >.> Maybe not..idk I don't do shit with scrim xd. Brain or Vick will know tho.

Demo is just what you see. It captures whatever you see and hear. This includes not recording your own voice unless you have loopback enabled. As for the replays, can't help you on that one.

I listened to the feedback from the public and CA+, and specifically made it clear I wanted to see how things worked initially before adding any changes. The suggestions made are noted and are being considered in the changes I'm still mulling over and am actually in the process of tossing in the CA section before going to bed for the night. Made it very clear I wanted to see how things played out first before adding these restrictions. You messaged me about the deathgames pretty early into the rule going live. And I, as you said, told you I was still watching how everyone adapted before making any changes. Since this change went up, I've been hearing the same few suggestions over and over, and have been bouncing them around my head before going anywhere with them. I also had no idea you planned on abusing the the rule until players come to me complaining about you doing it. Hearing from my player base that the president is abusing a rule and causing mayhem isn't something you enjoy hearing. I told you I was mulling over changes that would likely be made in the next 24 hours, because I was still taking my personal thoughts, alongside the feedback I got, and deciding which direction to start taking it. There's not too much to keep you in the loop of what I'm doing, since nothing had been decided yet. Nothing new had been presented to me that wasn't said in the CA or public threads. It was just a matter of thinking over which of them to take, and how to word them. I did, and do have every intention of tossing out the rule changes into the CA section before making them go live. I said from the start that we'd likely see a big influx in deathgames being played. And we did the first 30 mins or so. But after that, it was relatively calm. Issues didn't start until you started testing that exploit out. Look, I'll be honest. I should have confronted you when I heard complaints from the players. I completely apologize for that. I also should have been more open about which of the ideas I was mulling over in the CA+ section at the very least. I didn't find it that necessary since everything I was thinking on was already presented in the feedback threads and I hadn't fully decided which direction to start. By no means is this rule implication perfect. I know that. Since taking over JB, this is the first big rule change that's hit besides adding restrictions to LRs. And its a big ass change at that. Could some things have been done better? Yeah. I'll admit that. I completely apologize for not handling this better on my end, and will take my mistakes here as future reference, though I don't see another change of this magnitude happening again. I still have high hopes for this change to have a good impact in the long run. I'd like us to find that perfect balance that still sees the rounds we are used to with going to pool, or soccer. While still giving the CTs a little more freedom with their orders and not having 3-4 minutes being spent in big cage while CTs get picked off due to not paying attention. As noted, the LR rule seems to be the most well received one. I don't want to jump ship from the deathgames less than 24 hours after it being added, and would like to see how things go with the new restrictions that I'll implement after bouncing them off the CAs tonight. If those additions to it don't seem to work very well, and people would much rather jump that ship completely, then we'll go back to no forced deathgames, but keep forced LRs. I'd like to get at least a day or so of testing in with the new added rules and see how they go. Again, I completely apologize for not handling it better and will be more open with the team about where I'm currently thinking about taking things. I acknowledge that this change has been way less than stellar, and hope that the ship can be righted soon. I'm off to bed. Have to be at work in 4 hours. Gonna toss up my thoughts in the CA section real quick, then lay down.

The plan here, which I believe I made clear from the start, was make these changes, see how they are taken in stride, and make the changes needed. Which is why I made this go live when I knew I would be on the most to be here for them. I called you a cunt, and still stick by it because you literally abused the shit out of something literally just because. The potential for abuse was brought to my attention by you, I acknowledged it and said I would fix it. You opt to then go on the server and abuse the shit out of just to make a point. When I was on the server and you weren't there causing issues, things actually worked just fine. The potential for someone to abuse it was there, which I was aware of and working on, but no one did. There were some hiccups that I immediately worked out, and that was it. But going onto the server and purposely abusing a rule just because its possible, is deserving of me referring to that person as a cunt. It was causing trouble just for the sake of it. I was on the server when the change went live. I've been on my computer all day answering any questions that popped up. The only issue with the first day of the rule, was someone purposely abusing the rule, or in this case lack thereof, literally just because he can. I purposely didn't add many restrictions right out of the gate because I wanted to gauge first hand exactly how the server would react, and then make the changes from there. Which is what I've been doing. I don't want to add a 20 point check list for the CTs with this, which is why I didn't make the change right after you told me. It was a potential issue when you mentioned it to me, but wasn't actually happening till you made it happen. So I wasn't too worried with rushing out a rule change since I wanted to figure out what exactly I wanted to add with the change.

Seeing as how the only way to test out these changes is to put them on the server, that's exactly what I'm doing. Sadly we don't have a beta test server, so consider these first few days until the rules are more finalized, the beta test. I was fully aware of what you said to me, and am working on how I want to go about limiting it based on what I've seen on the server. Don't think pissing off the server along the way over something I was 100% aware of, was the best way, but sure why the hell not.

While I appreciate you beta testing for me, I was already aware of these when you messaged them to me earlier where I told you I would work on fixing them likely tomorrow. Again, appreciate the beta testing, but didn't really need half my server being pissed off by your testing and crying foul to me over something I was already working on fixing.

Please keep up with this thread and this thread. As I said, the first day was going to rough. Doesn't help that people are being cunts just because they can, but as I said changes would be made after seeing how things go initially. And again, as I've said I don't want to end up having a 20 point checklist for CTs with this shit so the goal is to have the least amount of restrictions while still molding the server to yield the best results. Which I know sounds retarded when you say it like that, but I'm going to mull over how exactly I want to word some of these things before adding more restrictions tomorrow. TLDR- I'm fully aware shit's on fire yo, stop throwing more flame into the fire and sit tight the fire department is on their way. Edit: Here's the analogy we came up with on TS. Essentially there was this patch of grass that I wanted to clear out. I specifically said "Hey, shit's bout to be on fire, but I'll slowly and carefully put it out." Now, here we are and shits on fire, and fuckers are running around screaming and essentially going "OH HEY, GOKU HASN'T TAKEN CARE OF THE FIRE YET, LETS THROW MORE FIRE ON THE FIRE SO HE'LL NOTICE". That's where we are now. I'm fully aware of the shit being abused intentionally by people, I'm and fully planning on patching out those exploits tomorrow.

CTs can kill a T if they refuse to LR. CTs need to give Ts an ample amount of time to pick their LR. I'm changing the amount of Ts for LR down from 4 down to 2.

Gonna tinker with a few thoughts tomorrow while I'm at work and implement something tomorrow afternoon.

Let me clarify since apparently people aren't getting it. "No repeating orders" means you can't go colors, 4 corner, colors, 4 corner, colors, 4 corner etc. round after round. The entire point of this change is to allow more variety in rules. Its still the first day so I understand an influx in deathgames, but CTs need to add variety in there. Doing the same 2 deathgames alternating is not okay. I'll start tinkering with some wording and potentially adding restrictions tomorrow depending how things keep going.

Adding fish in the barrel as a deathgame you can't force..I was honestly hoping people wouldn't even think of this, but xd.